HELP: Genesis on CD - new, old, or needle drop?

Back in '94 when they reissued the Genesis catalog, I bought into the remastered is better theory and traded my old discs and picked up the remasters.

With the exception of the Lamb disc, I was disappointed overall with the sound of this catalog especially the Phil era albums (with the exception of Seconds Out and Wind & Wuthering). I can't comment on the other Gabriel albums as I never picked them up. They sounded no noised and a little too high for my tastes. Needless to say, I kicked myself for getting rid of the old before previewing the new.

Luckily, I've got all the Phil era stuff on mint vinyl while my Gabriel era stuff is decent shape. I'd like to get these back on CD, but wanted to get some other opinions on what I should do. Going through the archives, the overall consensus seemed to be that the remasters were preferred over the originals.

I used to subject to Genesis email list while I was in high school and they had a CD section that broke down the individual albums and which pressings were better. IIRC, for the Gabriel era stuff, they said the UKs were preferred with the exception of the "Foxtrot" album. The US Lamb was to be avoided due to a pressing error (which I can confirm having had an original "Lamb" pressing) on the first disc. It had a horrible buzz throughout it.

For the Phil stuff, it was sort of a mixed bag. The US of "Trick of the Tail" was preferred because the UK had pitch issues. I used to have the UK pressing of "Wind & Wuthering" because the original US pressing had absolutely no bass and sounded so thin and lifeless (as well as no lyrics - the original UK package put this release to shame). "And Then There Were Three" and "Duke" were also US choices while "Abacab" and "Three Sides Live" were preferred from the UK. with "Three Sides" mainly the choice because of the 4th side live.

So I guess my question is this, should I try and reseek out the older titles, give the remasters another spin now that I am a little more educated in sound (thanks to here ), or should I fire up Cool Edit and do some needle drops?

Thanks!

 

I didn't think the '94 remasters were bad, but that's just my opinion. Some were very improved (the import-only Tresspass for example).

There's a new SACD of Lamb coming out this year, and Trick is next. The Atlantic gold CD of Abacab is amazing.

I always hated the original UK imports on CD with the screwed up covers (i.e. album art surrounded in grey).

In the end, use your ears. The original issues can be had cheap, but it's harder to find the UK imports.

 

Agreed. The covers stunk. I think I kept my Atlantic "Wind and Wuthering" CD booklet in the front of the import copy. Outside of ther "Three Sides Live" disc, that was the only Virgin import I had.

 

The best versions of Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot I've ever heard on CD were the original Virgin/Charisma CDs UK WITH the grey surrounding cropped versions of the original covers. IMHO of course.

CASD 1052 and 1058 for Foxtrot.

Classic Records did a great job of the LPs of the same name.

 

Isn't it CASCD, not CASD? I got rid of my copies long ago for the remasters. I never had an issue with them ... I thought Nick Davis did a decent job overall. The US version of 3SL holds a sentimental place in my heart (1st CD I ever bought), and that and the original UK issue are the only places to get some songs from the studio tracks.

 

Grabbed em. CASCD. Correct. Sorry.

 

No worries. I have a brain for remembering these things. The CASCD version of Foxtrot was one of my first CD purchases in 1987 or 88 at 21st Century Sound in Jenkintown, PA. Also got my copies of two rare Styx compilations from Japan at the same time (guess which CDs I still own ).

 

Isn't the current US Nursery Cryme CD remixed? IIRC, it sounded NOTHING like the old Charisma LP I had. I think they punched up the drums to make sound more like 80s Genesis.

Sean

 

I don't believe that any of them were remixed. I know that with the Foxtrot remaster, they fixed the tape drag during "Supper's Ready."

 

The UK vinyl of the Gabriel era stuff is amazing (except for Foxtrot for some reason). I also really love the sound of the UK ... And Then there Were Three and Genesis.

I also think the CD remasters are great... except for the horribly no-noised Trespass. It's so heavily NR'd that the top end goes away. It sounds like a noise gate clamping down. I originally thought the copy I got was a bootleg. I ordered another copy from another vendor and it sounded the same. So then I listened to my UK vinyl and it sounded like the original CD except for a lower hiss level. The top end was the same (not stifled like the remaster). I should post some comparison clips between the three sometime.

 

I agree. My UK Charisma Foxtrot has a lot of surface noise and the volume gets progressively quieter on "Supper's Ready."

What's stranger is that the vinyl looks mint.

Glad to know someone else has problems with this. I was surprised at this because I usually find UK vinyls far superior to their US counterparts, JMHO.

If I were to try the remasters again, any suggestions as to which ones I should try first?

 

The US Buddah/Charisma copies are awful as well.

 

I used to have most of the 70s albums on US vinyl, and frankly, they generally sounded poor.

I find the the original and the remastered CDs better than the US vinyl.

A friend of mine also had a VERY noisy UK Foxtrot, bought brand new in 1986 or so.

 

I have a copy of the UK released Foxtrot on vinyl that I purchased way back in 1974. I will have to give it a spin this evening. It's been a few years since I played it. I'll repost how it sounds.

 

The Lamb
Foxtrot
Selling England

 

Yes yes. I loved Trick of the Tail until I heard the MFSL.

Genesis Live sounded better than I thought it should too.

Also, Genesis to Revelation mastered by Steve. Oops, sorry Steve. I said I'd never mention that one again.

 

I love the Japanese Mini-LP remasters that came out a few years ago. They are kind of hard to find nowadays, but worth it to pick up. They are the identical mastering to the latest Definitive Remasters, but the sound better. I think it is becuase of the Japanese digital-to-digital converters or systems with less jitter? But they do sound better to me..

 

I've already got the Lamb disc and you're absolutely right.

Any suggestions for Phil era?

Also, did the Genesis Best of sourced from the remasters as well, or was that a different mastering job?

 

Although I did see them in Seattle on the Wind & Wuthering tour my interest had begun to peter out, to coin a phrase, with Gabriel's stepped up activities by then. That being said one must have Trick of the Tail. There is a long thread on the merits of various pressings here. I have a Japanese pressing and the remastered CD and they both sound gorgeous to me. I think that TOTT was where the band's engineering finally reached professional levels (well, maybe the Lamb) - it's too bad that the early albums don't have the oomph one would want (IMO).

I didn't buy the Best of... just snagged a promo CD single of their new ('98) recording of Carpet Crawlers.

 

My interest starts to wain about "Abacab," liked the song but the album was just OK. Was very pleased with the self titled record but then lost it again with "Invisible Touch" which I'm sure radio played a part in that sentiment. For the most part, "Invisible Touch" era Genesis is all that seems to be played on the radio here.

"We Can't Dance" was good, but hardly the old days. I never even picked up the CD without Phil.

FWIW, I am also prefer Peter's work with the band as well as his solo work.

 

I'll chip in:

Foxtrot:

I can't recommend the "Definitive Edition" remaster; something went wrong with noise reduction here. Either Dolby wasn't decoded correctly (assuming the master had Dolby), or no-noise has been used. I would describe Foxtrot in the same way that Jamie describes Trespass - like a noise gate clamping down on the top end.

The whole album suffers, but it's particularly bad in the quieter sections. Check out "Watcher Of The Skies" when those delicate hi-hats come in. Some of them make it through, some of them get muffled and muted. Very annoying. It's also a problem with those drifting chords in "How Dare I Be So Beautiful" in Supper's Ready. Compare this with a UK CD with the chopped up cover; everything is there intact, and just breathes. Which brings me to another thing...

The "chopped up" CD of Foxtrot has at least two different masterings. I've heard copies pressed by PDO UK, EMI Swindon and Nimbus. The PDO and EMI sound similar as I recall; I don't have the PDO anymore, I gave it away when I got the Nimbus. The Nimbus press is far brighter, and is more exciting to listen to than the other two. This is especially noticable on the side 1 tracks. It's as though Nimbus were handed an analogue tape and went their own way to get to a master. Supper's Ready even has "index" points on the Nimbus disc, but not on the other two. The Nimbus only gets minus points for clipping the beginning of Time Table...

Does anybody know if any of the other albums had more than one master in circulation?

As for Trick Of The Tail, my original UK disc (which was never chopped up btw) sounds gorgeous. It's a Nimbus disc again; I don't feel the need to upgrade - what do you guys think?

The only other remaster I've heard is Selling England By The Pound. I have to admit, I didn't notice any NR problems with this disc, and I thought it benefited from being a bit brigther.

 

Abacab...Atlantic Gold CD cat # 82521-2. Much better than previous or post masterings IMO.

 

Ah, I didn't make my question clear enough. I meant does anyone know of different versions of the original UK CDs?

Thanks for the heads up though Dave. I AM looking for an improvement on my Abacab disc; a dull, middly sounding disc made by PDO UK (and turning a shade of brown).

 

It's okay - found the thread

 

Was this done before the current remasterings? Who mastered it? I've always kicked myself for never picking up a copy. But as I said above, was never really a huge fan of this record.