ELP "Trilogy" gold CD by Musical Fidelity - lovely!

After listening to Peter Gabriel III on my new Denon DCM-380 (see my other post today), I played Trilogy. I've always thought of this as the best-recorded and -mixed ELP album. The gold disc makes it sound even better. I was afraid the Denon would reveal some badness I'd never heard before, but I was wrong. All of the wonderful instrumental and vocal tracks are clean, yet warm. There's not a bit of harshness or distortion (unless intended by ELP). I realized this will be a great disc to demo speakers when I get around to replacing my mediocre HT speakers (all right, all right, JBL if you must know - I'm not proud to admit it).

Doug

 

I never liked the sound of Trilogy - the drums were badly recorded compared with the first three (and especially Pictures at an Exhibition, which sounds very good)

 

Doug,

You will probably like the Mobile Fidelity Tarkus CD as well. IMO it is a better mastering job than the MFSL Trilogy, which I find just a bit dull, but definitely acceptable, and better than any other version I've heard.

There are a few JBL fans on this board (I am one of them) and SH himself has used JBLs for remastering, most notably Hotel California. However, most JBL fans only like the vintage speakers (manufactured before the company was bought out).

 

John, I agree that the drums on Trilogy sound more thin & mixed too far back compared to the 1st 3 ELP albums. But, I think the drums on BSS sound worse!

Dob, oops - it is Mobile Fidelity - a little senior moment there. I do have the MF Tarkus & like it as well, but because Trilogy has more "natural" and unprocessed sounds, I find it better as a reference disc.

Thanks.
Doug

 

Well, all of the first three (studio albums) were done in the same studio (Advision) by the same producer (Greg Lake) and the same engineer (Eddie Offord). That said, Trilogy does have its sonic low points - Hoedown sounds terrible, for example. But other tracks, such as The Sheriff (on which the drums are well recorded IMO) and Living Sin sound very good.

Of the three, I'd rate Tarkus as the best recorded, and I slightly prefer the sound of Trilogy over S/T, due mainly, I suppose, to Greg's improved skills as a producer, which gave Trilogy a more interesting and engaging sound overall.

 

Of the MFSL Tarkus and Trilogy CDs, I tend to prefer the sound of Tarkus, but they are both noisy, congested sounding albums IMHO, and I'd rather hear them on vinyl.

I think the best sounding part of Tarkus is Infinite Space, when Keith is working his magic with Bach on the pipe organ. The vocals sound nice too.

 

I agree Doug, the gold CD of Trilogy sounds good. It is significantly better than the Victory remaster, which wasn't too bad, and an improvement over previous efforts on CD. The MFSL disc has decent bass. I would also agree that bits of trilogy sound a bit thin, I presume owing to tricky-dicky cleverness in the studio.

Brain Salad Surgery has always sounded pretty weird - I remeber reading an interview with someone from MFSL in the late 70s who said that they wanted to reissue it as a half-speed LP, but the tapes just sounded too distorted.

On that note, what is the best version of BSS? Has anyone compared the Japanese K2 remastered CD with other versions, or with the DVD-A?

 

"On that note, what is the best version of BSS? Has anyone compared the Japanese K2 remastered CD with other versions, or with the DVD-A?"


I prefer the original US CD on Atlantic, manufactured in West Germany, for "Brain Salad Surgery". The DVD-A sounds nice, but the original stereo mix is not included, only a 2-channel downmix of the 5.1 mix. I sold my DVD-A disc and kept the original Atlantic CD.



Ed Hurdle
HeavyDistortion

 

The Sanctuary remaster is a different mix - not my thing. The K2 remasters are slightly behind the Rhino... the best version beside Mofi's remaster.

 

Dob & all, I should have been more fair regarding my comment about JBL. I'm sure they make some fine speakers, especially the vintage models as you note. To clarify, in my HT, I'm using the NSP models (N26, N24, NCenter, PB10) which are OK for HT, but lacking for music.

I'm using the DCM-380 in my basement system w/ my 1981 EPI 100Vs, which I still love after all these years!
Thanks.
Doug

 

I suspect that Sanctuary version of BSS (which has now been replaced with the standard mix with bonus tracks appended) was the same as the 2 channel downmix of the DVDA. There are quite a few differences from the standard version.
I presume you mean MoFi versions of Pictures, Tarkus and Trilogy? Tarkus and Trilogy, surprisingly enough, have less hiss than the Victory versions and more bottom end (NoNoise wasn't used AFAIK)

 

My number one pet peeve, as BSS is my all-time favorite album.

I've owned four or five vinyl copies, as well as every US CD release, a British cd, and a Japanese (but I don't know if it was the K2 remaster referred to in the quoted message). To me they all sound terrible, in the same ways, with relatively little differences. Overall sound is shrill, screechy, and thin, and the drums are especially weak. The cd's have the added enhancement of ridiculous, abrupt, severe changes in volume in Jerusalem, Toccata, and KE9/3rd Impression.



The DVD-A is at times a radically different mix, for starters.

I've yet to hear it on a good surround system, but (in my DVD-A player) the stereo mixdown is awful, with innumerable instances of horrible imbalances between instruments and vocals. This is particularly unfortunate, because the quality and amount of detail of the sound per se is amazing. I listen to it to appreciate and discover nuances and details that weren't audible before, but for a musical experience the DVD-A is unlistenable.

The Sanctuary CD "remaster" is the same stereo mixdown as the DVD-A.


There is one exception which stands out- "The Atlantic Years" double disc set has Jerusalem and KE9/1,2,3 as remastered by Joe Gastwirt, and the sound is different from and immensely better than all the others. None of the blow-you-out-of-your-chair volume lurches, and the tinny shrillness is greatly reduced. If they had included his remaster of "Toccata" in the set, my life would have been complete.



The usual disclaimers apply, and I reserve the right to be wrong.



Paul: can you give any details about the "Japanese K2" disc??

 

Welcome Back My Friends To The Rant That Didn't End Yet After All...


Found the Japanese K2 disc in question on the net. Haven't heard this one.



OK, I'll go back in my hole now.

 

And I thought no one else still liked them but me. It's a shame that a good reissue of their first album (and still one of my favorites) has not been done. IMO that is the best sounding of all their albums. I have an original Island pressing that sounds incredible. I agree on BBS I've owned half dozen and they all sound thin and FLAT. The Japanese Y2K is just as bad. IMO the best is still the original US Atlantic/Manticore but it too is bad.

 

I have the Japanese K2 BSS and have commented on it here before. It's in a very cool package but doesn't sound much better than any other CD I've heard of this album. I heard a rumor once that MFSL wanted to do BSS on Gold CD but the original master tape couldn't be found. It might explain why the DVD-Audio doesn't include a stereo track.

 

Is the Victory remaster the one that is readily available right now? I have the latest Trilogy remaster on aluminum CD. I think it sounds great.

 

I think the Victory CD's went out of print when Rhino took over the catalog about 5 years ago. But the only album that was remastered at that point was BSS. I'm working a double shift today so I don't think I'll have time to verify that.

I'm pretty sure that the Victory label was short lived. The album "Talk" by Yes was on that label and was out of print for awhile before being picked up by some other no-name label I can't remember the name of.

 

I have a copy of the US Victory mini-vinyl replica version that was re-remastered by Joseph Palmaccio. The current version in the US is the Rhino 3D version, which added an interview and was re-re-remastered by Bill Inglot (all other Rhino ELP albums are reissues of the Joe Palmaccio mastering, but some have inferior cover booklets to the Victory versions - eg Pictures has bits on the rear cover that were poorly concealed compared with the Victory)
I feel there is little to separate the Rhino and Victory BSS soundwise.
The MoFis had much better sound than the Victory/Rhino, but cover reproduction in the MoFis was a little blurry compared with the Victory/Rhino.

 

I think I own the Rhino then... thanks!