Who Mastered Reel to Reel, Cassette and 8-track tapes?

This is perhaps a question for our host or Barry Diament. I've noticed there is a bit of a collector community for Reel to Reel tapes, so it got me wondering, do we know who actually mastered these old reels and their lowly stepchildren the cassette and 8-track? Were they mastered at all? My guess is that they would have to be. I realize that vinyl has unique mastering needs and translating master tapes to the format is an exacting process that differs significantly from tape. So my question is: did such a mastering process exist for producing and manufacturing Reel to Reel tapes?

 

Hi katstep,

It depends.

In my early days at Atlantic, I was creating masters to be used for high speed cassette and 8-track production but those were mechanical processes more than audio processes. Generally, I was given an "EQ'd limited" tape created during vinyl mastering (designed to have the same changes as were made for vinyl) to use as the source.

Cassette masters sometimes had the song sequence changed due to management's edict that the sides be as close in length to each other as possible. (So much for all the time the artist and producer spent carefully deciding on the flow of songs for an album. )

8-track masters needed to be divided into four programs (again, as close to equal length as possible). Song sequence was often changed. Also, while some labels released 8-tracks where the program would be interrupted during the player's change to the next pair of tracks (i.e. several seconds of music gone), management at Atlantic preferred to have songs fade early if the end of a program was coming. The original would then be backed up and faded in at the start of the next program (i.e. next pair of eight tracks). So, there were some instances where a song would start and as soon as the intro was done, it would fade during the first line of the first verse.
Then, on the next program, that first line would fade in to start the rest of the song.

Alternatively (not very often), the length of the silence in between tracks would be increased to make the programs more equal in length. So, you might have 45 seconds between songs.
(At the time, one of my colleagues told me Mick Jagger once said to him that anyone who purchased an 8-track deserved whatever they got.)

Once I left Atlantic to form BDA, I didn't do many cassette masters and didn't to any 8-track masters (which by then were going away anyway). One that I do remember, which got the full mastering treatment, was the cassette for Pete Townshend's "Psychoderelict". I had the original masters, which I used to create the different versions of the CD master (original, censored dialog and no dialog), so that was used for the cassette master. That was also one of the only two times in my life I used compression - both times at the insistence of the producer. In this case, Pete wanted a little bit of compression for the cassette. (None was used for the CD and I've never used it on anything since.) I used an 1176 and compressed ~ 3dB for the cassette.

If I were asked to do a cassette master today, (assuming I accepted the job) it would not differ in any way from the CD master I create. (The best sounding cassettes I've ever heard did not receive any alteration to "compensate" for the medium. The whole idea of compensating for the medium is something which I've never heard evidence to support as being a good idea; quite the contrary in fact. But that's just my opinion. Other engineers will have their own perspectives.)

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

For reel-to-reel tapes and cassettes, they often weren't "mastered". They were duplicated off some reel and that duplication master was shipped to the reel/8-track/cassette duplication facility. If things were done properly, the original mixdown master would be used to create the duplication master. But it's not unknown for the Eq'd/Limited vinyl master to be used to create the tape duplication master (bad), or, e.g., a Dolby A encoded tape not decoded during the duplication process (worse). It's not unknown for various other submasters to be used in creating the tape duplication master.

Typically, the duplication masters shipped to the tape duplication facilities would be 10.5" reels at 15ips, 2 track. But I've seen duplication masters (e.g. the ones that Muntz used to get for their 4 tracks) that were on 7" 7.5ips 4 track tapes.

Once the tape duplication facility had the duplication master, they might use that directly, or they might create additional duplication masters off of it.

8-tracks required adjustment of the program to fit on four equal length segments. So someone, either at the duplication facility, or at the record company (or the studio who was providing the duplication master) would have to take care of that.

 

Thanks Barry! That sheds a lot of light on the subject for me. It sounds like you did quite a bit of Cassette and 8-track work. Did you ever do any Reel to Reel mastering? Would the process be pretty much the same as for cassette and 8-track?

 

Thanks for the info kwadguy!

 

Hi katstep,

I never created masters for reel-to-reel duplication.
Today, my approach (as it has been all along) is to create the best sounding master I possible can, regardless of target format. One master for any format. If I were doing reel-to-reel, it would be the same.

Incidentally, at Atlantic, cassette and 8-track "submasters" (as they were called) were created on digital U-matic tapes, same as CD masters were in those days.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Interesting information.

 

Hi Barry,

Do think that the 1980s Atlantic Led Zeppelin cassettes use your mastering? I have a few of those Zeppelin cassettes and I was A/B'ing them with the CDs that you mastered, and to me they sound pretty close to each other. The only difference is that the bass on the cassette versions are more forceful.

 

Barry wrote:

"8-track masters needed to be divided into four programs (again, as close to equal length as possible). Song sequence was often changed. Also, while some labels released 8-tracks where the program would be interrupted during the player's change to the next pair of tracks (i.e. several seconds of music gone), management at Atlantic preferred to have songs fade early if the end of a program was coming. The original would then be backed up and faded in at the start of the next program (i.e. next pair of eight tracks). So, there were some instances where a song would start and as soon as the intro was done, it would fade during the first line of the first verse.
Then, on the next program, that first line would fade in to start the rest of the song.

Alternatively (not very often), the length of the silence in between tracks would be increased to make the programs more equal in length. So, you might have 45 seconds between songs."

In terms of the silence, the longest I ever heard was on Neil Young's Live Rust, maybe about 10 minutes. Crazy!
Best change ever made to an 8-tracks from LP was the Spinners hits collection, replacing the short single version of Rubberband Man with the full-length version. I also liked the sequencing of Kiss's Double Platinum better on 8-track than LP.

In terms of the sound of 8-track, many of mine were pretty muddy sounding, with some exceptions.

 

Hi appledan,

Once I started mastering for CD, I was no longer making Atlantic's cassette submasters, so I don't know what tapes were used.

Do keep in mind that tonal differences *could* arise from irregularities in the cassette player's response. I don't know if that's the case here but it is something to keep in mind.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Barry, if I may a question. Who was responsible for the editing for a double cassette? I had Bette Midlers Live At Last and large chunks were cut out with no mention on the J card, and didn't even know it until I heard it on LP some years later.

 

That's awesome!

 

Thanks for the information!!!

 

Hi JamieC,

I'm not familiar with that album so I don't know who might have worked on it.
Generally, decisions like that, for already released material, would be made by someone at the label; it wouldn't be the engineer.

Do you know what year the cassette was issued? It might have been one of those where someone decided to make the program lengths on both sides equal - giving that priority over musical intentions. (That's the record biz.)

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

June 77. It was strange hearing it the right way later, and I must admit I was cheezed off.

 

Hi Jamie C,

I believe that was the year the album was released but not necessarily when the cassette came out (although it could have been).

I did not start at Atlantic until 1978, being employed by another record company in '77.

From what you said, it sounds like the problem was corrected in a subsequent release. (?) Nice when that gets done, isn't it?

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Barry,

Where did you work for before you signed on with Atlantic studios? Just curious!

 

I had the prerecorded cassette of "Tommy" back when the album was new. No libretto, several songs missing (to apparently fit it onto a single cassette). Very hard to figure out what was going on, as far as the story went!

 

A long time ago, I got a bunch of Muntz sub-masters that they used as the source for their duplication process...

Here's an example (for a release they never actually did, apparently--looks like it got canceled after Capitol sent them the sub-master).

It's kind of interesting: 15ips, but 4track and on a 7" reel.

 

thats pretty cool, do you play them? do they sound good? what others do u got?

 

The ones from the major labels mostly sound pretty good. The ones from minor labels are hit and miss--and a small number are obviously mastered from vinyl.

I can't recall all the stuff I have, and most of it's in storage right now.

One thing about the reels was that a few of them had been bulk erased at some point (probably Muntz was supposed to do that with all of them, but mostly they didn't). That included a couple of the more interesting titles, including one from The Turtles, and another from The Beach Boys. (I think it was Friends).

 

Those are most likely 4 track 1/4" tapes, I assume intended for 3-3/4 ips (the standard speed for Muntz Stereopak if memory serves), with all tracks going in the same direction. The broadcast version of the exact same cartridge, aka "Fidelipac," went at 7-1/2 ips. In theory, the fidelity should be OK, but they may have jacked up the EQ to compensate for losses in high-speed dubbing. Some equipment changed the EQ in hardware, but it depended on the label and manufacturer.

I used several high-speed reel dubbers in the late 1970s when I was an assistant engineer, and it was an ugly job. The machines failed all the time, they had tons of alignment issues, and even when everything was right, the results were never that good. I complained so much to our chief engineer, after a few months, we chucked the whole thing and just went out and bought two dozen Revox B77's and racked them all up. We used the whole thing for real-time duplication. It worked so well, we bought another two dozen industrial Tascam cassette decks, also used for real-time dupes. All those sounded fine, especially from decent masters.