AC/DC "Bonfire" 2011 reissue

I've been listening to a lot of Ackerdacker recently, having largely ignored them for many years. Last week I found the 2011 reissue of the Bonfire box set for what seemed like a very good price.
It just sounds really nasty and brickwalled. I realise these are live recordings and may not necessarily have been well recorded or mixed in the first place, but this is 'orrible.

Are earlier editions of this set any better sounding? Credit on this one says 'Digitally remastered from the Original Master Tapes by George Marino at Sterling Sound.'
Did Mr Marino master the original version, or was it part of Ted Jensen's remaster series? If earlier versions sound good I might need to track one down, as it seems like the performances are really good.

As an aside, the packaging is dreadful. I don't normally mind digipaks and the like, but this is a booklet arrangement where the disks are supposed to be clipped into the inside covers without the benefit of any sort of spindle.

 

My 1997 original sounds fine to me, never really looked at the waves, but it doesn't sound like your description at all. Though I'm not sure, I'd say from your experience that the Bonfire set was bricked along with the rest of the catalogue in 2003. Also the packaging was superb on the original one.

 

How did they change the packaging?

Didnt the original set have like each own plastic-case for each cd?
So, have they made it more compact now?

 

It's smaller and bound like a hardcover book. The CDs clip into a plastic mould in the inside covers, but there are these flimsy little clips that are supposed to hold onto the edges of the disk, rather than there being spindles. Here's a pic from Amazon. Doesn't really show how the disks go in, though.

 

I've got the Aussie 4 cd Alberts version and I can't find mastering info anywhere.

This version came with 4 separate jewel cases, a not too informative booklet and a poster.

 

The original had jewel cases for all the CDs. I don't remember the mastering being all that bad on it.

 

Would the 97 version be the same as the 03?

 

The copyright on the back of mine reads ©1976, 2003, 2011 J. Albert & Son (Pty.) Ltd, which I assume means it's a repackaging of the 2003 release (which was presumably a remaster), so I'm guessing no.

Thanks for your answers so far, folks

 

Thanks,
I will avoid the 03 version as well and keep an eye out for the 97.

 

That's entirely an assumption on my part, so I don't want to prejudice people against the '03 version without any solid evidence. If anyone has more than one version, their opinion would be helpful.

 

I have the old version and it is mastered by Ted Jensen. The mastering pattern tends to be the same with the Jensen version being better dynamically than the Marino's. It seems as though the titles were kind of batched processed. For instance, every song on Volts comes in at 0. There is still dynamic range as the quietest parts do not equal the loudest parts. On Let There Be Rock... You will find both discs to come in at -0.18. Live From Atlantic Studios all come in at 0. Back in Black comes in at -0.01. I would get the older one as it has better packaging and sound. Hope this helps.

 

Thanks for that. I guess I'll have to hunt down the Jensen master and flip this turkey on eBay.

Just so you know what I'm talking about, here's a minute from Highway to Hell from Disc 3:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LUWWZ38Y [flac, 7MB]

And here's the waveform in Audacity (red bits indicate clipping)


I ripped the disc with EAC, and freedb identified it as the 2003 remaster, but Accuraterip reported the following:

So maybe the 2003 and 2011 masters are different.

I am listening now to Disc 5, ie Back in Black. Without really trying that hard, I have now acquired five versions of this album. The Jensen CD (loudish, but good) the Diament CD (just great overall) and the original Australian Albert LP and the US Bob Ludwig LP (both excellent, and very similar). This one is by far the loser. It is not as nasty as the live discs, but it it's really quite squished.

 

Man, somebody has to teach these guys that the "only way to go" is not just up. What you posted is a real screaming mess. Reminds me of the Iron Man soundtrack cd. There is another sonic abortion for you to avoid.:thumbsdn:

 

So, which is the best sounding version of the BONFIRE boxed set...is it the original 1997 release or the 2003 re-release? Also, does BACK IN BLACK (disc 5) sound better on the '97 box or the '03 box (I think it was remastered for the '03 set)? According to the posts above, it sounds like the recent 2011 reissue is the worst sounding one...

 

I have the original also. No problem with packaging and sounds OK.

Those waveforms look and I guess sound awful. Why, why, why?

 

I should add that since I started this thread (yikes! nearly two years ago) I picked up a copy of the '97 Bonfire. It's still a little on the compressed side but overall much better than the reissues. Cool packaging too, with the bottle opener and all. I found it on ebay for like $25 or something. I haven't compared Back in Black in the set to the later version, but I would assume it is the same as the '95 Jensen remaster.

 

I really have nothing to add because I only have the '97 version but a couple of days ago I was listening to "Live From Atlantic Studios" and what a show! The band was on fire, and while listening to the CD I got the feeling it was one of the best live albums I've heard. That Malcolm Young is quite something, and Bon Scott worked the (seemingly small) crowd like a champ.

 

Back In Black in the '97 box was mastered by Ted Jensen, I just checked mine.

 

Sorry I can't comment on the 2011 remaster as I don't have it and haven't heard it.

I do have the original and 2003 versions. I can hear more pops and clicks from content sourced from vinyl (very apparent on disc one's opening track) on the original.



Bonfire (1997):
foobar2000 1.1.15 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2013-03-21 19:26:05

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: AC/DC / Bonfire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR8 0.00 dB -9.40 dB 6:16 01-Live Wire
DR8 0.00 dB -9.35 dB 4:40 02-Problem Child
DR8 0.00 dB -9.49 dB 5:57 03-High Voltage
DR8 0.00 dB -8.70 dB 4:14 04-Hell Ain't A Bad Place To Be
DR8 0.00 dB -8.77 dB 4:42 05-Dog Eat Dog
DR8 0.00 dB -10.77 dB 8:37 06-The Jack
DR8 0.00 dB -8.62 dB 5:11 07-Whole Lotta Rosie
DR7 0.00 dB -8.75 dB 5:33 08-Rocker
DR7 -0.18 dB -8.94 dB 8:04 01-Live Wire
DR7 -0.18 dB -7.78 dB 3:39 02-Shot Down In Flames
DR7 -0.18 dB -8.19 dB 4:31 03-Hell Ain't Such A Bad Place To Be
DR7 -0.18 dB -8.36 dB 5:25 04-Sin City
DR7 -0.18 dB -8.24 dB 5:06 05-Walk All Over You
DR7 -0.18 dB -9.39 dB 13:21 06-Bad Boy Boogie
DR7 -0.18 dB -8.60 dB 6:05 01-The Jack
DR6 -0.18 dB -8.19 dB 3:31 02-Highway To Hell
DR7 -0.18 dB -8.01 dB 3:20 03-Girls Got Rhythm
DR7 -0.18 dB -8.94 dB 6:32 04-High Voltage
DR7 -0.18 dB -8.76 dB 4:55 05-Whole Lotta Rosie
DR6 -0.18 dB -8.41 dB 10:45 06-Rocker
DR7 -0.18 dB -8.84 dB 4:14 07-T.N.T.
DR7 -0.18 dB -8.41 dB 7:34 08-Let There Be Rock
DR7 0.00 dB -8.78 dB 3:21 01-Dirty Eyes
DR7 0.00 dB -8.61 dB 6:34 02-Touch Too Much
DR8 0.00 dB -9.52 dB 4:28 03-If You Want Blood You Got It
DR7 0.00 dB -9.08 dB 5:24 04-Back Seat Confidential
DR8 0.00 dB -8.86 dB 4:17 05-Get It Hot
DR7 0.00 dB -8.50 dB 4:58 06-Sin City (Live From "Midnight Special")
DR7 0.00 dB -9.45 dB 7:57 07-She's Got Balls (From "Bondi Lifesaver")
DR8 0.00 dB -9.86 dB 5:24 08-School Days
DR9 0.00 dB -10.19 dB 5:15 09-It's A Long Way To The Top (If You Wanna Rock 'N' Roll)
DR9 0.00 dB -13.15 dB 10:03 10-Ride On
DR9 -0.01 dB -10.46 dB 5:13 01-Hells Bells
DR9 -0.01 dB -10.68 dB 5:18 02-Shoot To Thrill
DR9 -0.01 dB -10.00 dB 3:36 03-What Do You Do For Money Honey
DR9 -0.01 dB -10.12 dB 3:32 04-Given The Dog A Bone
DR9 -0.01 dB -10.87 dB 4:15 05-Let Me Put My Love Into You
DR9 -0.01 dB -10.68 dB 4:16 06-Back In Black
DR9 -0.01 dB -10.29 dB 3:30 07-You Shook Me All Night Long
DR9 -0.01 dB -10.92 dB 3:59 08-Have A Drink On Me
DR8 -0.01 dB -9.94 dB 4:06 09-Shake A Leg
DR10 -0.01 dB -11.57 dB 4:16 10-Rock And Roll Ain't Noise Pollution
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 42
Official DR value: DR8

Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 16
Bitrate: 952 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================

Bonfire (2003 Epic Remaster)
foobar2000 1.1.15 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2013-03-21 19:23:56

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: AC/DC / Bonfire [2003 Epic Remaster]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR7 0.00 dB -8.30 dB 6:17 01-Live Wire
DR6 0.00 dB -7.52 dB 4:40 02-Problem Child
DR7 0.00 dB -8.07 dB 5:56 03-High Voltage
DR7 0.00 dB -8.05 dB 4:13 04-Hell Ain't A Bad Place To Be
DR7 0.00 dB -7.93 dB 4:42 05-Dog Eat Dog
DR7 0.00 dB -9.86 dB 8:37 06-The Jack
DR7 0.00 dB -8.20 dB 5:10 07-Whole Lotta Rosie
DR7 0.00 dB -8.70 dB 5:30 08-Rocker
DR6 0.00 dB -8.15 dB 8:05 01-Live Wire
DR6 0.00 dB -7.00 dB 3:39 02-Shot Down In Flames
DR6 0.00 dB -7.50 dB 4:32 03-Hell Ain't A Bad Place To Be
DR6 0.00 dB -7.67 dB 5:25 04-Sin City
DR6 0.00 dB -7.56 dB 5:06 05-Walk All Over You
DR6 0.00 dB -8.67 dB 13:21 06-Bad Boy Boogie
DR6 0.00 dB -7.77 dB 6:05 01-The Jack
DR6 0.00 dB -7.54 dB 3:31 02-Highway To Hell
DR6 0.00 dB -7.21 dB 3:20 03-Girls Got Rhythm
DR7 0.00 dB -8.09 dB 6:32 04-High Voltage
DR7 0.00 dB -7.92 dB 4:55 05-Whole Lotta Rosie
DR6 0.00 dB -7.50 dB 10:45 06-Rocker
DR7 0.00 dB -8.02 dB 4:14 07-T.N.T.
DR6 0.00 dB -7.51 dB 7:33 08-Let There Be Rock
DR7 0.00 dB -8.09 dB 3:21 01-Dirty Eyes
DR6 0.00 dB -7.73 dB 6:34 02-Touch Too Much
DR7 0.00 dB -8.15 dB 4:26 03-If You Want Blood You Got It
DR6 0.00 dB -8.44 dB 5:24 04-Back Seat Confidential
DR7 0.00 dB -7.47 dB 4:15 05-Get It Hot
DR7 0.00 dB -7.65 dB 4:53 06-Sin City
DR7 0.00 dB -8.61 dB 7:56 07-She's Got Balls
DR7 0.00 dB -8.99 dB 5:21 08-School Days
DR7 0.00 dB -8.54 dB 5:17 09-It's A Long Way To The Top (If You Wanna Rock 'N' Roll)
DR9 0.00 dB -12.56 dB 9:44 10-Ride On
DR8 0.00 dB -9.27 dB 5:12 01-Hells Bells
DR7 0.00 dB -8.86 dB 5:17 02-Shoot To Thrill
DR8 0.00 dB -9.07 dB 3:36 03-What Do You Do For Money Honey
DR8 0.00 dB -8.47 dB 3:32 04-Given The Dog A Bone
DR7 0.00 dB -8.68 dB 4:15 05-Let Me Put My Love Into You
DR8 0.00 dB -9.70 dB 4:16 06-Back In Black
DR8 0.00 dB -9.27 dB 3:30 07-You Shook Me All Night Long
DR8 0.00 dB -9.14 dB 3:58 08-Have A Drink On Me
DR7 0.00 dB -8.95 dB 4:06 09-Shake A Leg
DR8 0.00 dB -9.78 dB 4:26 10-Rock And Roll Ain't Noise Pollution
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 42
Official DR value: DR7

Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 16
Bitrate: 949 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================

Also: On the 2003 Bonfire remaster, Back in Black (disc 5) has the same exact dynamic range and peak / RMS values as the standalone retail 2003 Epic remaster of Back in Black and the CD layer for the 2004 DualDisc version.

 

Here's with the "show clipping" feature turned on in Audacity for both 1997 and 2003 versions:

 

Ugly

 

Thanks for all of the details! So, the dynamic range is just a drop better on the '97 box (8), compared with the '03 reissue (7). Do you sometimes play both box sets though or just the 1997 version? Does the '03 box have anything going for it over the '97 box? Does it have more punch, is it more upfront in the speakers, or does it just sound compressed and loud? I don't believe I've heard anyone praising the '03 box at all.

Thanks again for all of the data, but could you also try and simply explain the different listening experiences of each box? For example, was the '97 box mastered at a lower volume than the '03 set...do you need to turn it up louder, and is the '03 box still very good to listen to, or it compressed like those 2009 Universal Rolling Stones reissues?

Also, just to clarify, is the 1997 boxed set version of BACK IN BLACK (disc 5), definitely the best sounding one, over the 2003 boxed set version and the '03 standalone CD, or do you prefer one of the '03 versions?

 

There are two versions of the 1997 box - a 4 disc and a 5 disc version.

The 4 disc version has 2 tracks taken off the Let There Be Rock disc and on put onto the Volts disc.

The 5 disc version has Let There Be Rock in the correct order, but spread over 2 discs due to length.

Personally I'd prefer the 5 disc version, so the tracks can be heard in the correct order in the correct context.

 

The '97 is what I started with. After selling it off when "upgrading" to the '03 remasters, the '03 sounded a bit digitally "colder"/harsh compared to the version I'd been accustomed to. I later repurchased the '97 box (along with everything else I'd upgraded) off Amazon.

The main improvement I think the '03 offers are the click/pop removal from the needledrops.

I never really considered the '03 remaster of Bonfire necessary (the original came out just 6 years prior), I'm sure it was mainly due to Sony/Epic's desire to have AC/DC's entire catalog on store shelves following the new contract.

Do I think the '97 is the best sounding version? Yes (though I haven't heard the '11 remaster which appears I don't need to bother wasting time with)

Do I think someone with the '03 remaster should get the '97? If seeking the best sounding version, yeah go with the '97, but don't hold high expectations.

I don't hear great differences in volume, but I do hear more compression on the '03, especially for live tracks. I find the '97 a little more crankable than the '03 remaster. I find the '97 a little easier on the ears (a little warmer, more pleasant less fatigue/headache inducing) where I feel the opposite towards the '03.

Haven't heard the '09 Stones remasters, so can't comment on them.

Between the three yes, I would say the '97, but you can still do better with the original Atlantic/Diament mastering.

In terms of sound, I really don't care for any of the 2003 AC/DC remasters (they are in fact, part of why I started looking at this forum), a shame because I loved the packaging/design they did for them.

 

This should be a Ted Jensen master like the 5 CD US version, just with two tracks from the live discs tacked onto "Volts" to pare it down to 4 CDs. I think US and Aussie masterings were identical beginning in '95 with "Ballbreaker". Correct me, someone, if I'm wrong.