EMI Beatles cds

Hello Everyone. I just joined this forum a few months ago and have been very pleased with the amount and quality of audiphile information I have received. Initially, I kicked mself for not buying Steve's gold disc of Pet Sounds two years ago when I had the chance. Fortunately, I just won an auction on Ebay for this title.

I am requesting assistance in re: to the Beatles catalog and ask for your patience with a newbie to the forum. I know that this catalog is a constant discussion in the forum.

Basically, has there been a cd-by-cd discussion of the various strengths/weaknesses of the official EMI cds that I know are in drastic need of refurbishment? What was added/taken away with each title?
I know that Help and Rubbersoul were re-mixed by George Martin. How do they suffer or not from this re-mixing. I believe that the rest of the catalog was left alone. Or was it? Were these flat transfers from first generation analog tapes? Are the major limitations with these cds basically the same limitations that affected all cds made back in 1987?

Finally, if one despairs of ever getting new authorized releases that are true to the originals due to the politics of the situation, what are the best alternatives? LPs? CD? Needledrops?

Thanks for any help.

Richard Stammer

 

Welcome Richard, You are correct that this is probably the most discussed subject on the forum.

In general I would say that the following holds true:

The first four discs, available only in mono, sound awful. They are not legally available in stereo which is simply not acceptable.

Help & Rubber Soul have been screwed with. Whatever you think of the sound quality the original mixes are not legally available.

From Revolver thru Let it Be, I think the sound quality is mediocre. Not terrible, but lacking the magic on the original vinyl.

In my opinion, original vinyl sounds best by far but assembling a complete set starting now would be cost prohibitive. You have to follow your own conscience concerning bootleg needle drops.

 

Get the original UK vinyl, not the US vinyl. Unless you're nostalgic about the Dextorized sound or have childhood memories of the US versions don't bother getting the US vinyl if you want the best.

 

As far as legit Beatles CD's go, I think "MMT" & "Let it Be" sound the best of the lot. The "White Album" & "Sgt.P.L.H.C.B." are ok. "Help' & "Rubber Soul" sound good, but (like Tim said) they are not true to the original mixes. If vinyl dosen't bother you, by all means hit e-bay and get an BC13 Box. That IMO is the best bet for the stereo pressings. And from there it goes on and on and on, you're never finished!

Welcome aboard Richard!

 

Richard,
Don't forget that the original UK mono LPs were different than the stereos! Sometimes the differences are in the mix, but sometimes different performances was used on the mono LPS.

 

That's the best thing to do. They're supposedly from the same metal parts as the 60's pressing but at a much, much cheaper price.

BTW, the BC-13 box is also called the Blue Box. There's a Red Box which is the mono pressings and is a little harder to find.

 

Thanks for the replies so far. By the way, what is dextorized sound? Is that when they added fake reverb? Thanks

Richard

 

That's right - Dave Dexter at Capitol used reverb to create a sound more 'acceptabe' to sixties US tastes.

 

Dave Dextor was the man working for capitol in the USA. He actually got credit on many of the US LPs, which said "Produced in the USA by Dave Dexter, JR." He added the echo. he is also famous for being the man who rejected the first few Beatles singles for Capitol records, leading to The Beatles records on VJ (buy Bruce Spizer's book for all the information, if you are interested).

 

Yeh Richard, Dexter is the guy who prepared the tapes for US release by wrecking them. I have never understood what the idea was, maybe someone else here could enlighten us both.

 

Dave Dexter was a jazz aficionado who, unfortunately, did not have a clue when it came to "pop" music.

 

You have to remember that Dave Dexter Jr. and other record executives thought the Beatles recording sounded to flat and bland for the American market. And rightly so, Dave Dexter Jr. simply made a judgment call for the times. Back then when I was growing up, none of those Beatles LP's or 45's sounded bad to us. Besides nobody back then thought the Beatles would be around for no more that 6 months to a year. Who knew!!!

 

They may not have sounded bad, but they certainly didn't sound as good as the tapes that were sent to Capitol from England.

I guess in comparison to Pat Boone The Beatles were bland!

 

Very well said!!!

I think he did a great job in doing so, millions of US listener's and buyer's of The Beatles could not have been wrong if you get my child like drift.
It's not as easy finding NM copies of these original Capitol US LP's either.

I honestly think the HELP! CD sounds much better than the original UK version IMHO. But thats just me, oh and about a billion other people.

However when all is said, I believe that owning a BC-13 Box or Blue Box is a very good way to hear and own good copies of the original British Mixes in Stereo. Being that is said, I'd still like to hear them sound better!! Which I'm still sure is possible! Oh wait, but then they wouldn't be original anymore??? Darn!!!

The agony!!!!!!!!

 

I disagree here, I don't want to sound like I'm sticking up for Dave Dexter, but at the time nobody complained about the sound quality of those records at all. They were being played by teenagers on small little hifi record players or being heard through a 3 inch speaker in a car or on a transistor radio. And those records that he was supposed to have wrecked sold millions and millions of copies. It's easy to say how bad he doctored the tapes he received from the U.K. after hearing them years later on better sound equipment and in stereo for that matter. Mono ruled in the 60's especially for pop music, no audiophile in the 60's would be caught dead with a Beatles record. They were older and listening to jazz, classical, easy listening etc. JMHO!

 

Dave Dextor also did a lot of midrange EQ work on those tapes.

 

Should I infer that people would not have bought the records if Dave Dexter, Jr. hadn't "messed with" the tapes that EMI sent to Capitol?

 

Blame it on conditioning but I still haven't recovered from the initial shock when I first heard the CDs in the 80's. The first few were so anticeptic sounding. I know this is not "right" - I should love the original mixes "as nature intended" but I love the Capitol's anyway. For the most part I prefer mono, but I'll take my stereo Meet The Beatles and The Beatles Second Album over the With The Beatles CD any day.

 

I think that would be my point also . IMHO the same millions would have been sold if Capitol had just released them as they got them.

I think Richard has received good advice here also. At this point in time it would make a lot more sense to acquire those two box sets instead of trying to buy the records one piece at a time.

 

The CDs you first heard in the 80s are nowhere near the original mixes "as nature intended," which is why I started the Save-The-Beatles-Catalog Yahoo group (please join, hint hint).

 

Wasnt the general consensus here that the EP Box Set was acceptable for its genuine sound quality (faithful to the original recordings?) I seem to recall most people on this site giving the EP Box Set a

If thats the case, perhaps that would be a good choice for Richard to buy:

http://search.ebay.com/ws/search/Sa...sortproperty=1&satitle=beatles+ep+box&from=R8


I have the EP box set although I noticed it does say on the back of the case 'each four song CD EP digitally remastered'. I'm confused now...., how is it that most everyonme here liked the box set (presumably for sounding authentic) when its been digitally remastered - if its been d.re'md, its not authentic anymore, right?

BTW, I noticed that a lot of open-reel Beatles tapes are still selling for good $$ on Ebay. I guess the buyers arent aware of what Steve H said about them not being too good - (non-original source tape, multi-generation copy).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3360266825&category=432

B/F

 

No not at all, they still would of sold. But it was a judgment call he made at the time, and nobody tried to stop him from doing it. Don't get me wrong, I hardly listen to the Capitol LP's any more. I'm just going by what he and others thought at the time. Like Steve has said, you can't change history and that's unfortunately the history of the Beatles Capitol recordings. On the plus side of Dexter, he did put the U.S. "Rubber Soul" together, which I and others feel is superior to the correct U.K. version. I also recently read that both John and Paul loved his EQ work on the U.S. "I Want To Hold Your Hand" single. They both felt that his EQing gave the single a real good punch. As for the Beatles being bland compare to Pat Boone (I know you were joking). They didn't think the songs were bland they thought the recording techniques were bland, not enough EQ, reverb & echo.

 

Just because an album has been remastered doesn't mean that there has been anything done to the mix. You can still call a flat-transfer a remaster even though there is nothing done to the eq.

 

Dave,
Joe Koz's statement above totally nails it as far as the sound and why Dextor did such a great job on making those records sound the way they did.
He is speaking of the time when someone of his or my age only had the availability to listen to the Fabs. And it was great.
When saying people wouldn't have bought the records, YES you in fact are inferring as to "How could they have, what were they or we thinking"!

Sorry but the fact still remains Dave Dextor messed with the UK versions but in no way did he fail EMI or Capitol let alone The Beatles here in the US. If anything that midrange EQing was the ticket. That's where the musical range of the guitar is mostly at! It's what a guitar type based group should in fact sound like especially in the early 60's!

If you didn't grow up during this time period then you didn't experience the US BeatleMania sound.

This is not meant for argument, as I understand having such great stereo gear as it got better for one to listen to. More people would agree that it's the UK Parlaphone LP's that sound the best. I do not disagree with that either. Yet I don't feel that what was The Beatles sound from the US Capitol LP's makes them not valid or original either.

They are well sought after and this I know for a fact. Could they still sound better today if these were also remastered, perhaps yes, but they still wouldn't be the original mixes then either!

 

Simply because the albums sold tremendously well after Dexter tampered with the sound, it does not logically follow that they sold *because* of what Dexter did. They could just as easily have sold in spite of his alterations as because of them. Sure, no one complained, but that's because the average US record buyer had no idea the songs sounded so much better in the Brit versions. The same defenses being given to Dexter in this thread could just as easily be applied to the Beatles One CD: "making it sound more acceptable for the market" and "it's sold a kajillion copies, so it must be good." I grew up listening to the Dexter "I Feel Fine" and "She's a Woman" but it took me about 5 seconds into my first hearing of the British versions to realize I'd been screwed all those years.