Cloudy colored vinyl [pics]

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by groovelocked, Nov 17, 2010.

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  1. groovelocked

    groovelocked Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Columbus OH (USA)
    What makes a record cloudy like this disc I bought 'new' from an amazon seller? You can see a rectangle where it ISN'T cloudy- that was under the outer sticker. The label looks the same as a picture I have in the book Extraordinary Records, not sun-faded, the sticker isn't faded. The sleeve is clean, no scuffing other than a touch of label ring on the outside. It looks like some residue covering the record, but I don't feel anything on it, no difference to the touch between the glossy section and the cloudy. It PLAYS fine, a little warped but doesn't effect play. a bit of surface noise at the end of one side but I bought it for the other side anyway. One side is almost all cloudy, the other has waves on it. I would have guessed a chemical reaction with the sleeve, but under the sticker is mostly fine (there's a light scuff line from the flap being tucked in). Any ideas?

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  2. reb

    reb Money Beats Soul

    Location:
    Long Island
    I've never seen that phenomenon before. Maybe its just a bad pressing. Or the record was put into the sleeve before it cooled down adequately.
     
  3. HiFi Guy 008

    HiFi Guy 008 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    I have a record on black vinyl with a similar issue. Btw, it doesn't sound any different because of it.

    The record was stored in a clear, heavy plastic outer sleeve (and no inner!) so I supposed it had something to do with the vinyl reacting with the plastic sleeve or sunlight or both.

    Your pressing looks like it too was stored in a clear, heavy plastic sleeve, and reacted with the sun and plastic - except for the area that was protected from the sun - that sticker. Make sense? Can you hear it? I'd bet you can't.
     
  4. groovelocked

    groovelocked Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Columbus OH (USA)
    Reb that's something I hadn't thought of- and would make absolute sense except for the rectangle under the sticker, which also had contact with the sleeve. Unless some counter-reaction because of the sticker on the other side, something with the glue or the glow-in-the-dark print. I'm so curious to figure it out...

    HiFi Guy, it only has some static noise in the dead wax just coming out of the song on the all-cloudy side. The other side seems pretty quiet but it would have to be pretty bad to interfere with this music- which I hope I can find more like it.

    This is the first record I've seen like this and wonder if all the copies are the same.
     
  5. JBStephens

    JBStephens I don't "like", "share", "tweet", or CARE. In Memoriam

    Location:
    South Mountain, NC
    Christmas will soon be here, you can mount it on a low-RPM motor and shine a floodlight through it to light up that aluminum Christmas tree on the front porch.

    (Who else remembers that?)
     
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  6. 3db

    3db New Member

    Location:
    Ontario Canada
    That's awesome.
     
  7. PMC7027

    PMC7027 Forum Hall Of Fame

    Maybe the sticker stopped the portion of the vinyl under it from getting exposed to the light (or heat from the light). Just a guess.
     
  8. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    Yeah, I remember those. Dammit, now you got me thinking of all the Christmas stuff I have to start shlepping out soon! :realmad::laugh:
     
  9. Tony L

    Tony L Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I've seen that many times before, it happens when a record is stored in a particular type of clear plastic outer sleeve with no inner. My guess regarding the rectangle is there was a paper insert in the sleeve at some point that protected the vinyl in that area. I assume this is a chemical reaction of some kind. There is a very similar situation with vintage UK vinyl e.g. Decca SXL classical pressings, reacting with their poly-lined inners, this tends to leave a rippled effect on the surface that often will not clean off even when using a proper wet-vac record cleaner. I'm a second hand record dealer and see this a lot.

    Tony.
     
  10. violarules

    violarules Senior Member

    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    When I was in college, the library was getting rid of a lot of vinyl and I had the chance to go through and pick out whatever titles I wanted. It was pretty cool, but when I got them home and played them, I realized there was a problem identical to the one mentioned above. They had all been stored in library-style, plastic gatefold covers, with a plastic-lined sleeve. The sleeve had reacted with the record, leaving a rippled effect on the vinyl that was very audible upon playing. A huge disappointment, to say the least. :sigh:
     
  11. reb

    reb Money Beats Soul

    Location:
    Long Island
    I didn't notice the clear plastic sleeve in the photo, but now I do. :cry:In my collection there are about 20 picture discs in this type of plastic. The ones that were sealed off from air the most (additional sealed Japanese sleeve) suffered the most. Some had no surface damage at all.
     
  12. HiFi Guy 008

    HiFi Guy 008 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    :laugh:

    Actually, I have a few more lp's with this issue. They too were stored in heavy plastic sleeves - inners, actually, from the 1950's. I think they were called Sound Lab records or something like that. But there is no audible distortion.
     
  13. HiFi Guy 008

    HiFi Guy 008 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    I have some of those too! But I've never heard the ripple - no difference to unmarked copies for me.
     
  14. JBStephens

    JBStephens I don't "like", "share", "tweet", or CARE. In Memoriam

    Location:
    South Mountain, NC
    Yes, it's a chemical reaction between the sleeve and the vinyl. But it affects only the visible surface of the record, the "land" between the grooves. It doesn't go down into the actual groove itself. So the eye can see the contamination, but the stylus can't.
     
  15. Jeff Wong

    Jeff Wong Gort

    Location:
    NY
    The clear sleeve is very likely made of PVC. UV light from fluorescent lamps or sunlight can contribute to the slow breakdown of PVC. A residue or by-product might've been the result of this reaction and affected the LP inside the sleeve. Because the sticker was blocking light, there was not as much exposure to the UV resulting in little or no chemical reaction in that region of the sleeve. PVC is not archival safe.
     
  16. Synthfreek

    Synthfreek I’m a ray of sunshine & bastion of positivity

    So how's that Mark Pritchard remix?
     
  17. reb

    reb Money Beats Soul

    Location:
    Long Island
    UV light is a plausible explanation for the LP pictured above with the area under the sticker untouched. But it doesn't explain how records stored in the dark get affected. Its most likely from some chemical leaching out of the plastic sleeve. The plastic sleeve actually "sticks" onto the LP over time.
     
  18. groovelocked

    groovelocked Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Columbus OH (USA)
    Thanks for the replies everyone- I have put it in a paper sleeve inside the clear sleeve now, and glad I did that 20 yrs ago with some old records I have in the PVC sleeves. Will do the same with some new ones I've bought the past two years.

    Synthfreak, I love the Pritchard mix, it's filled out with a lot of added solo phases. I only heard the song for first time last week, and just now heard the original more skeletal album cut- very cool. So far I prefer the JD73 mix most. I'm thinking all 3 could be edited together into a pretty cool build-up.

    here's the Pritchard mix on youtube. the record was only $6.50+ship on amazon
     
  19. Somewhere in this forum or another one i read that it is something like gas effect, either from the pvc or from the vinyl itself, it may help if you let them out of their sleeves just to allow them to get some air.

    3 records from my collection are worse than this, all from the same label (4AD), 2 Dead Can Dance albums and 1 Bauhaus.
    I "aired" the first 2 albums about 3 weeks ago for about 12 hours and noticed no change whatsoever but 2 days ago when i checked them I THINK that there is a slight difference.

    So i am "airing" the other LP now, i hope it will work because on the Bauhaus copy the clouding is audible.
     
  20. groovelocked

    groovelocked Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Columbus OH (USA)
    I have other records like this now, where the PVC sleeve had contact with the record surface. One hot pink record was in a very wrinkled PVC sleeve and the record looks like it was etched with an animal print (Jesse Johnson 12" so it looks appropriate!). Now all PVC sleeves are stored in a closet and records are re-sleeved in new inners and blank jackets.
     
  21. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    Phtalates from the PVC breaking down from time, high temperatures, etc. I have several of my remote control enclosed in protective PVC sleeves with padded backing and took them out the other day to change batteries. The black plastic bodies were ¨clouded¨, more like stained by this white residue. Nothing serious considering the remotes have been preserved as they were manufactured 20 years ago save for the clouding.

    Funny enough none of my pic disc from 30+ years ago have been affected.
     
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  22. Dino

    Dino Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kansas City - USA
    Here is a thread on (inner and outer) PVC sleeves that leech onto LPs (and CDs).

    http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...ctors-outer-bag-inner-sleeve-concerns.387179/

    This is what happened to your record. And you were lucky that it did not effect the sound.

    To make a long thread short, you run a very real danger of records being damaged if they are anywhere near PVC. And the damage cannot be undone. Scary stuff, but it is better to know.
     
  23. groovelocked

    groovelocked Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Columbus OH (USA)
    Thanks Dino! I followed that thread, maybe even posted in it, but that is why all my PVC sleeves are in a closet in another room far away from my records- the info in that thread.
     
    Dino likes this.
  24. Also take a look at this discussion.

    http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=43623&start=120

    I made another observation on this matter just tonight while reading in vinyl engine.

    There is strong pvc smell in the interior of some of the record sleeves, also inside the inner sleeve, the smell is not there when i smelled the interior of the pvc sleeve.Seems that the gas travels through the paper and the inner and is absorbed by the vinyl, the pvc itself seems free from this substance.
    The records inside the sleeves that had a strong smell were fine but i suspect that eventually the gas will travel into the vinyl, i also suspect that the vinyl might be affected in depth and the cloudyness might probably mean that there is in-depth contamination that has reached the surface.

    For me this is a good sign because if this gas slowly evaporates then it might mean that if the record stays out of the sleeve there is a chance that the procedure can be reversed.
    All my vinyls are stored in pvc sleeves from 1990, audible clouding in only 1 and less than 10 have cloudyness, i have about 700 - 800.I store them on wooden bookself, inside my room away from heat sources.

    I havent removed the sleeves yet because i do not want to risk humidity on the sleeves so im currently airing things and i'll see how it goes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2015
  25. I was also thinking that it might be a good idea to air the record sleeves when someone removes pvc ones and replaces with safe ones, because the new sleeve will still seal the gas inside the sleeve.
     
    groovelocked likes this.
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