Bill Carter's New Book "The War For Late Night"

I'm starting a new thread for this book, because it should be of interest to all the followers of the various Leno/Conan/Tonight Show/Late Night threads.

Bill Carter of the New York Times, the generally-acknowledged expert on late night talk shows, has a new book coming out -- The War For Late Night -- which will be released practically on the eve of Conan's debut on TBS. A coincidence, I'm sure. His first two books about The Late Night Wars, The Late Shift and Desperate Networks (which is only partly about late night) are both classics of television reporting, with Carter scoring lengthy interviews with all the major players. This new one, provided that it wasn't rushed to press in an imperfect state, promises to be more of the same: well-informed, unbiased, insightful, and sparing no feelings.

Below is a link to a tasty preview of the book, from the Vanity Fair website. I've made it no secret that I dislike Jay Leno and am rooting for Conan, but I look forward to a spirited and respectful discussion of the book regardless of anyone's bias or personal tastes.

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2010/12/late-night-wars-excerpt-201012

 

The first book, almost 20 years ago, about the Leno/Letterman "battle" for the Tonight Show was a gripping read. I must have read it at least ten times.

I'll be picking this up next week.

Evan

 

I read "The Late Shift" this summer (I saw the movie many years ago) and the thing that struck me is how similar the Conan/Jay situation was to the Dave/Jay situation.

In both cases NBC tries to have its cake and eat it too and fails miserably. By trying to keep everyone ("Don't let Jay go to CBS so sign him to be Tonight Show host" "Don't let Conan go to Fox so sign him to be Tonight Show host), they damage everyone.

 

I look forward to this book. The excerpt linked above plus early comments from those who have advance copies indicate that Leno was nowhere near the "bad guy" he was made out to be. I prefer Leno as a comedian but hold no animosity towards Conan. I just hope that to the extent his reputation was unfairly tarnished, Jay regains it via this book. He seems like one of the truly good guys in the business.

The excerpt indicates that Jay was concerned about Conan and offered to reach out to him (NBC nixed that). By contrast, Conan almost comes across as having a persecution complex which ultimately led to his attack on Leno over the airwaves.

At the end of the day however this may all be a moot point. Late night may be a damaged commodity. I no longer watch any of the shows with regularity and when I do watch I can't help but think how much better their predecessors were.

 

I'm disappointed with the extract. It undermines a few key points, relative to what it chose to emphasize. It didn't seem as balanced as I expected it to be.

I just can't decide whether this was an intentional extracted perspective to attract buyers (no Leno appreciators would buy a book that attacks Leno completely - and most consider "The Late Shift" to be against Leno already, so it has to work against that reputation. And Conan fans would probably buy it either way). Or if the whole book is this way.

For example, it takes the time to explain how ridiculous it is to imagine that Jay Leno planned the whole thing from the beginning. I don't know of anyone who really believed that, just that he was only hoping for that outcome by the time there was no where else to go and he was clinging on. But instead, it's presented here as the main beef people have with him.

Then it doesn't bother to elaborate on how ridiculous it is that NBC/Zucker believes it was the Conan camp that was the main motivator behind the online movement, the Team Coco things (Carter even constantly referred to Conan's staff as "Team Conan" or "Conan's team" as if they were the same thing as the online trend).

The accusation of Pollone as being the main source of leaks was never refuted (despite the fact that things were leaking already prior to their involvement -- the news of Leno's cancellation was leaked PRIOR to Conan and staff knowing about it - that was how they found out!) and the idea that they were, "playing them in the press". It was clearly an indication of NBC not understanding online memes and how trends carry on the Internet and just how much resonance Conan had online (many of his memes and trends carried across - Chuck Norris probably being the most significant). The equivalent "logical" rationale (as the idea that Leno couldn't have conspired the whole thing because it meant he would take a hit in his public image) for this would have been - if they had such ability to influence and conspire such a movement, they would've done this ages ago, when it really mattered - to promote and get Conan the ratings over Letterman.

Then it completely neglects the issue of why Conan attacked back (on his show etc), not just emotionally (which seems to be the only reason they presented) but legally - the fact that they did have grounds that NBC breached their contract (which is explained very clearly here, and could also be simplified by noticing the fact that NBC was so willing to pay him such a huge sum to be on his way instead of running him into the ground with a courtcase - as was NBC's intentions by the end of the debacle).

 

I have a hard time completely making up my mind on Leno. I definitely don't think he's some evil schemer who keeps developing nefarious ways to stay on the air. But he also doesn't seem like a just an awe-shucks guy who just happened into this dream job.

To me, there are two "honorable" things that Leno could have done but didn't.

1) Back in 2004, if he wanted to keep the show and wasn't willing to retire and turn it over to Conan, he should have come out strongly and said so. In other words, be willing to fight for what you want.

2) In 2009, he should have retired and disappeared. To me, once you've had your turn, step aside. I feel the same way about ex-presidents, Fed chiefs, baseball players past their prime, you name it. I really admire how Carson handled it - once he was done, he was done (save for a one-time appearance on Letterman).

Leno admitted on Oprah that he told a "white lie" when he said he'd retire. To me, it's simple: say what you mean and mean what you say.

 

Unsurprisingly, I suppose, I read the excerpt completely differently. I expect the book to be fair to all sides -- The Late Shift certainly didn't condemn any of Jay's actions in the 1990s, it just reported them -- but this exchange to me showed the true colors of Jay Leno:

Note that moments after what should have been a devastating firing, Jay was jubilant at the thought of getting the Tonight Show back. No thought or mention of Conan ... until it was made clear that he wasn't getting "his" show back, just the time slot. Only then did he wonder what was happening with Conan. I'm not sure how this passage restores Jay's "good guy" image.

But that said, I'm going to wait until I read the book before I get worked up over anything. I am NOT interested in a book that falsely vilifies Jay or turns Conan into a martyr -- I honestly want the TRUTH from the inside, and that's what Carter's access should give us. We'll see what impressions are confirmed or challenged next week.

 

To be fair, it is just an extract - it's hard to know if it's a complete chapter or just selected bits and pieces. Much of the further explanation you are looking for could have been omitted for brevity's sake or is covered in other chapters.

 

I think that both NBC and Jay lack the basic morality to stick to their words. I hope that Conan cleans up (though I fear that the "network" deal he took will make this outcome all but impossible).

 

As I've said over in the Conan thread, I actually think going with TBS was a stroke of genius and puts Conan in a win-win position. By being on basic cable, he's automatically judged by different (lower) standards -- however, with Leno and Letterman's ratings perilously low these days (0.8 in the 18-49 demo), a shocking upset is surprisingly attainable. I tend to think Conan can never touch Leno's total viewers, but he's not drawing 5 million viewers anymore -- it's more like 3.7 million. Conan will probably draw 2.5 million at first, and settle down around 1.5-2 million -- enough to beat Stewart and Colbert, who are the true late-night darlings right now.

The bottom line for Conan at TBS is, as always, MONEY. As long as Conan produces unprecedented revenues for TBS, he wins -- BIG. Plus, if he does as well as he COULD do, he will put TBS on the map and he will OWN that network, in a way Dave could never do at CBS. The days of "network" superiority over "cable" are pretty much over -- it's all just CHANNELS to most people under 30. Conan will have the last laugh. I hope.

 

Perfectly said. I agree with all your points.

I don't think anybody believes that Leno was so Machiavellian as to have planned this entire charade all the way back to 2004. But even Leno's supporters (in the Carter book excerpt) admit that Leno is "emotionally opaque," and allude to how driven the comedian is.

I still feel like Conan comes across as the victim here, and I thought his decision to release his statement was a good one, and no question it came directly from his heart. The thing I like about Conan is that he seems like a completely non-devious, hard-working guy with no ulterior motives; Leno is hard-working, but he strikes me as very insincere and superficial.

I also thought the piece was very balanced, showing both sides as having inherent flaws, and also making it clear how up the creek NBC was on this deal. Note that the actual book is 416 pages and the article is not even 5000 words, so we can expect ten times more detail from the complete book.

Can't wait to read the book when it ships next week...

 

Plus the "story" goes back to 2004, so we'll have five years worth of book.

Evan

 

No kidding -- this is not just the story of January 2010...

 

My old pal Mark Evanier has a terrific essay on the whole Letterman vs. Leno vs. Conan flap, and points out that all three are multi-millionaires who achieved 97% of everything they wanted in life.



(Conan wins the price for creepiest Halloween mask of the year.)

BTW, the best candidate for villain in the entire book is Jeff Zucker, former head of NBC, who clearly made some very, very bad deals and had bad judgement. In Carter's previous book, Desperate Networks, even Zucker admitted that when he made the deals with Leno and Conan, all he might be doing is just postponing an inevitable confrontation between the two for five years. And that's exactly what happened.

 

Them's some creepy masks; Conan looks like a skeleton(which is a reason a former girlfriend of mine finds him "creepy").

Evan

 

I saw these masks in person at my local Party City the other day ... I actually think that Conan's is the most accurate, with Letterman's being by FAR the creepiest -- he looks like a deranged lunatic in that mask! Anyway, the funniest thing about them was the NAMES of the masks: Letterman's was called "Talk Show Host," Conan's was called "EX-Talk Show Host" (ouch!) and Jay's was simply called "Motor Mouth."

 

Those are really creepy masks, far creepier than many of the masks that are supposed to be creepy! This should be a great book, I like The Late Shift a lot.

 

late night tele talk shows all shxite.

We now get John Stewarts 'Daily Show' as the' international Daily Show' ,that's a week old satire that's lost its punch.
It used to be 24hrs old, now its ancient news and embarassing content.

Our local BBC 'Have I got News For You', now in its 26 th season and weekly is the only one I rate and that's on at 2200hrs for the longer mature edit.

Otherwise its some twxat plugging a book/fim/ cd/Knitting pattern.

 

Conan's mask looks like if Ed Burns starred in a remake of "Messiah of Evil".

 

The angle of that picture is bad; in the store Conan's mask was actually the best likeness of the three.

 

Hahahahaha!

 

Here's Conan wearing the Conan mask:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqv8pKypC1Q

 

Does anyone have any opinions about why Jay hired Stuttering John from the Howard Stern show? Was that a power play?

 

I think that was Jay trying to be "edgy."