Needle-drop on a budget.

Once we get settled into our new house at the beginning of next year, I will begin the process of creating needle-drops of some of my vinyl albums which I find unacceptable on CD sound quality-wise. I'm not sure if this has been discussed before, but what would be a good bare-bones setup with which to achieve acceptable needle-drops. I have a laptop and external soundcard, but is there anything else I need to consider when doing home needle-drops?

 

Click Repair changed my life!

 

Be interesting and helpful to me too as I'm looking to change a few things with needledrops in mind.
I hear the internal soundcard is critical here. Though I am using an external one at the momentwhich cater's for 16 Bit through to 32 Bit with the full rage of Khz. I was looking at a new laptop, top quality internal sound card and an external one too dedicted for 24 Bit transfers.
Like bubba-ho-tep some guidance would help but would like a set up to cater for a best possible transfer without excessive outlay.
Thanks in advance.

 

The quality of the phono preamp is probably more important than the resolution of the capture in terms of sound quality.

 

Both are equally important. You need a good quality phono preamp, and by that I DONT mean a 20$ special on Ebay. What I do mean is a 400$-1000$ audiophile preamp. If your budget wont allow that, then your best bet is to get a quality stereo reciever from the 1970s with a phono stage...the quality will most likely suffice quite well for you.

The sound card is another issue. A cheap 20$ sound card isnt going to do it. At minimum, a nice Creative labs 24 bit card should be allright.

I use a 24 bit GINA card (no longer made) and its served me very well. My needledrops sound very, very good.

The point here is that every step of the process will affect how your drops end up sounding:
Make sure the disks are spotlessly clean
Clean your stylus
Use good cables, too. the shorter the better.

 

I would say it it the opposite. If your digitizer isn't up to snuff, no sound that you put through it is going to sound any good. I know this from experience.

 

Well, I use a $229. Cambridge Audio 640p, and it's considered audiophile sound on a budget. The frequency response measures ruler-flat. That doesn't make a lot of difference to a lot of people, but I like it.

 

+100!

 

Creative is usually suspect. And bloated, crappy drivers. Get at least an M-Audio Audiophile card or better. Click Repair is excellent. I prefer Adobe Audition or Sony Sound Forge to edit on.

 

+ 1 on the M-audio. I use something like this:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FirewireSolo/

 

Not the E-mu line. It's different.

I caved in to Click Repair too. The recent version is excellent!

I also prefer Audition, as it was built for editing. One can edit on Sound Forge, but it is cumbersome, as it's not what the program was designed for. However, they do make a budget version that retails for around $69 USD. That, anf the Click Repair suite should do it.

 

You also need a turntable.

Sorry....I'm grumpy, but if you fill out your profile we might better be able to assist you.

 

Stay away from those Ion tables. And, I do not recommend Newmark.

I did notice that ProJect now makes a USB turntable that is worth looking at if you're on a budget. Since it's USB, there's no need for a soundcard.

http://www.crutchfield.com/s_252DBT3USB/Pro-Ject-Debut-III-USB.html?tp=200

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.co...00388&src=3WFRWXX&ZYXSEM=0&CAWELAID=234004055

Music Direct has it too, but I didn't see it on their website. It is in their newest catalog.

 

But that means you're at the mercy of THEIR built-in preamplifier and sound card. Then you spend hours and hours digitizing your albums, and finally realize "Gee, that's not very good." and have to start all over again. I have yet to hear a decent built-in preamp. I'd stick with the separates.

 

I use Sony Sound Forge for all my location recordings as it now does 2496, so your needle-drop quality can be a good as you want it to be. Do not cheap out on a sound card, but that doesn't mean you have to spend crazy money either. I have used M-Audio gear and think it is great bang for the buck. I am still using a 24bit flying calf ADC and a DIO 2448 card in an old HP as a music server.

I have been enjoying for over 3 years now my Echo Indigo IO card in my laptop, but would now consider their firewire ($199) version if starting out new. What is surprising to me is that many new laptops are not coming with a firewire interface. A huge mistake for my money. I will not record with USB due to the high jitter of the low cost ADCs. On playback the Benchmark and others are great. With a desk top it is easy to add a firewire card.

Don't forget, if you want to burn discs of your needle-drops you can keep them in 2496 by burning DVD+Rs with the $40 Audio DVD Creator program that will allow those 2496 pcm file discs to be played on any DVD player. It will even do PAL, European format discs.

For a phono stage I would recommend the Musical Fidelity V-LPS phono staage for $149-$199, depending upon if it is on sale at Audio Advisor. Make sure you are also using good cabling. Don't spend crazy money, but buy good.

You will also need some way to adjust the input levels from your phono stage and you might consider a passive vol control, but better yet, I would consider the $99 Mackie 402 mixer from a local Guitar Center or on line from www.musiciansfriend.com that also has a very good headphone amp for monitoring.

If you are serious about good needle-drops it will take a little effort to get there.

 

Thanks for the info, everybody. I will try to fill out my profile a little more completely as time permits (which isn't very often with 7-month old twins and pending move...).

 

If you are on a budget, instead of buying a mixer for level control if you need it, use a clean cassette deck in record and pause mode. Works just fine with as little or less coloration than a cheap mixer.

 

NO DONT DO CLICK REPAIR. it will mistake non-clicks for clicks and ruin the music! I did this on ELO II and during "mama" it destroyed the horns

get yourself an old technics TT and a cheap cartridge and you'll be fine as long as the phono preamp doesnt suck

 

I've been using Clickrepair on everything now for four years and have never heard it "ruin" anything. It's in fact, made many noise-ridden albums almost as quiet as a master tape. For the very rare case where it does dullen some spurious transient, it's still better than putting up with all the clicks and pops! As for horns, did you use the newer versions with Pitch Protection turned on?

 

I used to run my turntable to my computer, but found a nice standalone CD burner at a pawn shop for $50 sometime back and it changed my life. For me, it's a lot easier and saves me time trying to split the files, burn the CD, etc. I don't always get the track markers perfect but that doesn't bother me so much.

 

For a phono pre-amp, I cannot recommend highly enough the Yaqin MS-12B. I used a Cambridge Audio 640P for the past four years and was quite happy with it, but my curiosity about a tube pre-amp plus the Yaqin's ability to also process a line-level input from CD/SACD/DVD plus two outputs led me to check it out. I was astonished with the improvement in sound. The backgrounds are quieter than the 640P (which is no slouch to start with) and the imaging is truly holographic. the first LP I happened to put on was Steve's escellent remaster of Van Morrison's Moondance and it was one of those WTF jaw-dropping experiences. The realism of the instruments was by far the best I've ever heard.

As an additional benefit, the tube magic also works for CDs. I find myself "needledropping" CDs as well through this thing and noticing that it seems to sweeten the highs, improve the imaging and soundstage and make even moderately limited recordings much more musical. Plus with thw two outputs, I run one directly to my EMU soundcard for needledropping and the other to my receiver for playback. In fact, since I do a lot of my listening through headphones connected to another amp with an input from my PC, the Yaqin serves as my main pre-amp for both CD and LP. I can't say enough good things about it, and this is with just the stock tubes. Plus, it's basically the same price as the 640P ($249 US).

You can get it from the following eBay dealer in Toronto. I've read nothing but good comments about him on several audio forums. My experience was that he shipped the same day I bought it (a Thursday) and I received the amp the following Monday morning. This dealer tests every unit before shipping. I found his communication to be very good. By the way, if your budget is more limited, he also offers an all-tube phono stage for $100 as well as a separate all-tube processor (tube buffer) that can be used for line-level equipment also for $100.

There is also a different version of the same product sold by Grant Fidelity out of western Canada. The owner of that company is quite active on various forums and claims he uses better components, but he also sells his version (the P-307) for $100 more. It may be better, but all I can say is that my MS-12B resulted in a stunning improvement in what was already a good sounding system, plus it restored my faith in CDs, bringing them much close in sound to what I love about LPs. I like to call it "breath of life in a box."

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130402585241

I'm going to be busy with some family things for the next week or so, but afterwards, I'll be happy to post some samples in the needledrops thread.

 

No, I used Cool Edit Pro 2.0's click repair function.

 

The OP asked for a budget needle-drop setup. I am suprised how many folks assume Click Repair and other sound editing software is part of a "budget" setup. I do a lot of needle-drops and don't use anything but a TT w/ pre-amp and my Tascam cd recorder. I don't play noisey vinyl though.

 

Clickrepair is all of about $40 and it's probably the best investment for improving the overall quality of needledrops I've ever made.

 

What if there are no clicks to remove?