Has Yoko ever commented on the unseen 1980 Lennon music videos?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by monkboughtlunch, Jul 3, 2010.

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  1. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    In all the interviews given over the years, has any interviewer ever asked Yoko about the unseen professionally produced music videos of Lennon performing "I'm Losing You" and "Starting Over" at The Hit Factory in August of 1980? If so, what was Yoko's response? These would be the last pro shot videos of Lennon in performance.

    See here for more info: http://web.archive.org/web/20080729224728/http://www.vintagebb.com/lennon.html
     
  2. Boy I've checked here & there, hither & yon, about this one. To the best of my knowledge she's never said anything about it, ever. But I've encountered folks who spoke with authority & confidence that it does exist & that the inner circle is well aware of...whether this is true or not is another story...I do believe it does, partially because I don't think John, despite what he claimed, could actually bear to destroy something like that- being that he was a notorious documentation fiend & a Beatles bootleg collector- and also because I'd like to believe that.
    Of course with all the re-issue news it would be a great time for someone to raise the issue...my bet is you'd get an evasive answer, and that it won't ever be seen in her lifetime...the hope being that Sean is more sympathetic & he, or whoever sort of steers the ship after this, will help it see it's way to the light of day & a wide a7 appreciative audience. It's really one of the most intriguing, & potentially amazing, remaining rumored holy grails in all Beatledom!
     
  3. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    What I find intriguing is that no interviewer has apparently ever asked Yoko about this historically significant video material. There's this Austin DJ named Jody Denberg that frequently interviews Yoko, but I'm not aware of him ever pressing for an answer about the mysterious fate of the last known performance videos of John Lennon made in August 1980. Given that both Yoko and perhaps Jack Douglas will do conference call media briefings as promotional support for the Double Fantasy Stripped CD underdub remix, this would be a perfect time for an interviewer to try and get to the bottom of Lennon's last video shoot, given it occurred during the DF sessions. Here's a site that documents some of the Denberg / Yoko interviews: http://www.a-i-u.net/jody.html
     
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  4. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    We know that some of the tapes made by director Jay Dubin survived because the Yoko footage from the August 1980 video shoot appears in the A&E Yoko Ono documentary.

    So, either Lennon destroyed the master videotapes of himself at that same shoot. Or Yoko is withholding the tapes from release because she feels they don't portray John in the best light (he was skinny in Aug. 80) and told Jack Douglas he didn't like how he looked on the tapes. Or the tapes of John or lost or stolen.

    My guess is that Yoko is sitting on the videotapes for whatever reason, as like you noted they documented and kept everything. Even though John told Douglas he "sunk the tapes in the pool" I bet he didn't destroy them. There's lots of "skinny John" footage from 1969 he didn't destroy. Maybe Yoko is witholding the 1980 footage because she remembers John said he wasn't happy with his appearance in the August 1980 videoshoot?

    But by the same token, the November filmed walk in Central park (made three months later) was released.
     
  5. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    The Double Fantasy mystery page cites that director Jay Dubin recalls that John played piano while a grip sang "Feelings!"

    http://web.archive.org/web/20080729224728/http://www.vintagebb.com/lennon.html

    Has anyone ever interviewed Loucas George for more info about the August 1980 video shoot at The Hit Factory?

    Here's his Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Loucas-George/758874621

    And his web site: http://www.loucas.com/active pages/About Us.htm
     
  6. BillyK

    BillyK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hamden, CT USA
    Well - I've actually never seen these videos before so I have no comment.
     
  7. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
  8. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    I've seen that. Great stuff. Who filmed the interview with the critic? Is there more?
     
  9. I thought there was a slightly longer one, but I can't find it...there used to be more versions of this up, and like I said I remember a longer version along with a shorter version being on youtube...I bet it's filmed by Bob Gruen (the famous rock photographer), but I don't know for sure...it's supposedly Robert Hilburn of the L.A. Times he's talking to.
     
  10. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    Thanks. This is obviously not from the master video source. Probably a few generations removed. It appears Gruen used a consumer video camera to tape this footage. VHS or Betamax format? I wonder how much more of this stuff Gruen taped.
     
  11. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    BTW, I think director Jay Dubin said the Aug 80 live performance video shoot was taped on 1". This must be the Type C format (open reel tape.). Looks like it could resolve 330 lines of resolution.

     
  12. dudley07726

    dudley07726 Forum Resident

    Location:
    FLA
    You are correct. There was another piece to this tape whereby John talks about Paul and his latest song, "Coming Up." That is Hilburn and was filmed by Gruen.
    He knows quite a lot about it. He says it was recorded in his barn and that he liked the Album version rather than the live version and that if he was with him, he would have recommended to Paul to use the album "sped up" version.
    Hilburn askes John if he was ever suprised with the material Paul came up with and his response was "would you be suprised by your brother."
    Meaning that he was never suprised by what Paul came up with.
    That second piece is not on YouTube anymore.
     
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  13. fabtrick

    fabtrick New Member

    Location:
    NorCal
    As has been stated on previous threads, when the Lennon Anthology box was released, the Jay Dubin video was purportedly searched for, to be used in the video that was made for the "Cheap Trick" version of I'M LOSING YOU. It was not "found", and so Bun E. , Rick, and Tony Levin mimed to the track together, with some lennon-ish animation going on behind them. Look for press material regarding this video, and you may find quotes regarding the Jay Dubin video.
     
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  14. The part about not being surprised by your brother is in this one, but yeah the whole thing with Lennon liking "Coming Up" and preferring the "weird" studio version is in that other part, along with lots of other stuff...too bad it got taken down.
     
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  15. I'm not so sure about this. On the link to the Lennon Mystery Video page (from the OP in the first post) it certainly says a rep from "Studio One" says it's lost, but that's been the official word now for years. I do have to admit that I was surprised that it was never used for that as well, but I suspect it was more an editorial choice than one born of necessity because it's gone...but they may just be my wishful thinking.
     
  16. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    Was there really a quote in the 1998 Lennon Anthology press release material about the Aug 1980 Jay Dubin video shoot?
     
  17. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    This is what Double Fantasy Mystery page cites as feedback from someone who asked a staffer at StudioOne back in 1998 about the August 1980 Lennon pro shot footage: http://web.archive.org/web/20080729224728/http://www.vintagebb.com/lennon.html

    So this hardly settles the debate. Maybe the "source" at StudioOne was just conveying the "party line," and Yoko does not want to release this stuff for whatever reason.
     
  18. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    Dubin noted that he didn't make any copies of the footage and Yoko sent folks to retrieve the tapes. Apparently more filming was planned but it never happened, thus Dubin noted no post production editing occurred.

    So the Lennon's had the master 1" C Type open reel video tapes shortly (perhaps immediately) after the footage was taped.

    What would be interesting to know is how the footage was transferred and provided for that A&E special on Yoko.

    Since we are talking 1" C Open Reel Tape masters, one would presume Yoko made a dub somewhere in New York (probably to U-Matic) and then sent snippets of footage of herself she wanted to be used in the documentary. I doubt she would have sent the original master 1" tapes to the production company for the documentary. So who made the dubs of the original tapes and were John's performances on the same tapes as Yokos -- or separate tapes?
     
  19. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    Another question: Did Jay Dubin film the jams such as Dream Lover / Stay / Mystery Train / I'm A Man etc? Or were those jams performed between takes of I'm Losing You and Starting over and therefore not filmed?
     
  20. mc7t

    mc7t Forum Resident

  21. That's anybody's guess...did they just shoot the songs they were focusing on (I'm Losing You, (Just Like) Starting Over), I'm Moving On) or did the cameras run & catch the whole thing? My bet, sadly, is that they worked with the slate....meaning action- start filming, then cut- stop filming...but one can hope...
     
  22. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Texas
    Another interesting thing is that on the DF Mystery page, Andrew Solt, director of the 1988 Imagine documentary is quoted saying he looked for the tapes and couldn't find them:

    http://web.archive.org/web/20080729224728/http://www.vintagebb.com/lennon.html

    This is interesting as it seems Solt wasn't even sure about the background of the tapes and who shot/directed them, suggesting Yoko gave him very little information if any about the Aug 80 video shoot. And we know she had some of the Aug 80 video tapes in 1985 because she provided footage for that documentary about her. This tends to suggest Solt wasn't even provided access to the Aug 80 footage of Yoko, which we know Yoko has. This tends to suggest Yoko was witholding the tapes from Solt in 1988 when he was producing the Imagine John Lennon doc. Maybe this is wishful thinking on my part, but I think this makes a strong case for the Lennon footage probably still existing but being withheld by Yoko for whatever reason.
     
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  23. Agreed. What's interesting is that 1) He was asked about it...and 2) That he talks about looking for it, to no avail, in his reply...
    That means...1) He's towing the party line, and saying what he's supposed to because he got the gig on an "official" bio film...2) There really is no existing film, or there maybe was in '85 but it was gone, ruined, lost whatever by '88 and while they looked for it, they couldn't find it...or 3) He was stonewalled by Yoko when he, apparently inquired about it- since it appears he was certainly aware of the stories about it, & went so far as to, supposedly, try to find it.
     
  24. nikh33

    nikh33 Senior Member

    Location:
    Liverpool, England
    Are we saying we totally believe that the Yoko footage is from Aug 80 and not from, say April 81? I somehow find it very hard to believe that footage of Lennon in the studio could possibly 'go missing' in 1985. The most probable fate of the footage is that it was indeed, junked.
     
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