Amazon's "CD on Demand" service

I know they have been doing it for independent artists for years, but is anyone here alarmed about the number of otherwise out of print titles from major artists that are being sold on CD-R through Amazon? They put up a small disclaimer on the web page, but is that enough to inform the average consumer that the product they are purchasing in not an actual CD?

Also, they are using the same listing for "CD on Demand" and New and Used Marketplace products of the original CD pressings - further confusing the issue.

In my bargain bin hunting, I've picked up a few burns, one having a legit license through "mp3.com". I can imagine that this problem will only get worse with Amazon blurring the difference in the CD and CD-R formats. And there might be a number of angry collectors who expect a rare OOP title, and find themselves with a licensed "burn."

 

Yes, I noticed this with the Rave Ups's first CD, Town And Country. The price is $14.98. CD-R Note: This product is manufactured on demand when ordered from Amazon.com.

Does this contain artwork? Is this computer burn? Is it from tape or another CD?

Here is what is available from their Help screen.

What are CD-R and DVD-R media?
CD-Rs and DVD-Rs (the "R" stands for "recordable") look like the discs you're used to and offer the same audio and image quality. This recordable media is used to manufacture titles on demand, as fully authorized by the content provider.

Through manufacturing on demand, CreateSpace, part of the Amazon.com group of companies, enables Amazon.com to offer music and video content that might not otherwise be available. Each disc comes fully packaged, with artwork, in a standard jewel case for audio and an Amaray case for video, although for reissued products the artwork may differ from the original.

CreateSpace works with many of the leading music labels, television networks, film studios, and other distributors to make these titles available to Amazon.com customers. All products are manufactured from original source materials (e.g., for audio products, uncompressed CD-quality audio).

By eliminating inventory, waste, and inefficiencies in the distribution system, on-demand manufacturing provides the added benefit of helping preserve the environment.

When shopping, you'll see CD-R or DVD-R on the product detail page for such products. Amazon.com's standard return policy applies to these purchases.


All in all this might be of help, previously the disc in question is very expensive on EBay being only released on the LINE German import I believe.

Has anyone purchased any of these CDrs as of yet?

Rick A.

 

It sounds like what Warner is doing with their Archive collection (for movies).

 

It is loosely equivalent to a legal uncompressed download. No objection as long as you know what you are getting.

Some on amazon.co.uk seem to be created from MP3 sources - not so keen on these.

Tim

 

I have some of these and they are "bare bones" (without extras) but the titles most likely not be available if not released in this DVD-R format. But here Warners owns the masters, I am not sure of source that CreateSpace uses.

Rick A.

 

Downloads and legal CD-R's...

Just like my friend said the other day, this is only making our collections worth even more money and he is right. I still love to collect, but with so many B&M stores going the way of the dinosaur, it's getting much harder to enjoy the passion. Even buying real CD's from AMAZON doesn't have the same buzz, as holding it in your hand and talking with the cashier. Oh well, luckily, I have about 97% of what I could ever want and it seems that I just buy to buy these days. With titles from the likes of "Judas Priest" on AF GOLD Discs, even they are less tempting anymore. I'm starting to think that it's all been done and that the majors don't care anymore, so we're all pretty close to calling it, GAME OVER"!

Chris C

 

Just wanted to vent a little bit, as these "on demand" CD-R discs are starting to show up in the used CD bins... CD-R is NOT the same as CD. Those dyes lose data over time. I popped in a CD-R data backup that was burned in 1996 the other day, and it was corrupt... data was lost. The same thing is going to happen on those "burned on demand" music titles.

 

We also have this thread running in Marketplace Discussions:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=279794

I agree with mrlefty and have posted my frustrations in the above thread.

 

Not knowing if it's sourced from mp3 scuks indeed. If there is a pressed CD out there, I want that one, not a crappy reproduction.

Yes, this is good for the monetary value of our collections going up but overall, it's tricking customers into something they do not want yet again. Now that amazon is closing in on getting its physical music retail monopolist status, they seem to be showing their ugly side. Yet, I guess this is done just to help their CD-R burning production chain stay in constant demand as CD-Rs clearly are a niche market.

Italian internet company Vitaminic failed badly with this business model in the early 00s even though they behaved a bit worse, acting towards artists and independent labels as a web host for free streaming and then selling CD-Rs with standard artwork of decompressed streaming files to unsuspecting customers. That was even more of a cheat.

However, I have nothing against purchasing a CD-R of the original CD master by a self-releasing artist who just could not afford to go to the pressing plant with a glass master. Yet, I hear the pricing for glass masters has gone down considerably as of late. And you cannot sell a download at the merchandise stand at concerts so why not also sell the CD online through your website if you are an independent artist. I mean they have been doing it successfully in the early 2000s, too, and piracy was much more of a hype / craze back then than it is today.

I have bought 2 discs from amazon.com's on demand service so far:
-Al Jardine - Post Card From California (that was before it came out on a pressed CD)
-Jackie Greene - Small Tempest EP (that one was out of print and the artist made it available through this service again, but somehow, one track is mastered much quieter than the rest. And I'm curious as to whether this mistake is also audible on the original pressed CD)

Yet, I'm afraid the amazon "on demand CDs" might stop lesser known albums from getting a reissue as a pressed CD. This business move of amazon is clearly aimed at the market share of the Wounded Birds of this world.

 

I have a couple of amazon's on-demand CD-Rs and I'd never know they were CD-Rs if I hadn't read it. The ones I've got look and sound fine.

 

Enjoy 'em quickly, others here say they'll disinegrate in less than 10 years. * poof ! *

 

Unless it is an independent artists whose titles were never available as a pressed CD,
I would never buy a CD-R. I don't trust those CD-R burners source, or data transfer quality.

I would, however, consider buying a digital download of uncompressed (unfutzed with) music, if I trusted the source and the price was reasonable (by reasonable I mean way less then a physical product would cost - after all I wouldn't expect to pay as much for a digital photograph of the Mona Lisa as I would for a nice art print...or for the real thing for that matter).

 

All I can say is... caveat emptor.

I would never buy one of these things new. I worry that they will start to show up on the used market where I do most of my purchasing. I just ordered an album by Laika (Lost In Space), which on amazon (USA) is listed as one of those CD-R burned on demand things. But I ordered a pre-owned copy from a UK seller. I am presuming this is the real deal, a pressed CD. I doubt there will be a problem, but it concerns me.

If there is an upside, the store will never be out of stock. But that's a pretty slim advantage in my estimation.

I recall in the late 60s or early 70s the clothing industry came out with dresses made of paper. Women could wear them to a party and then just throw them out, I guess. They never really caught on. I view CD-Rs in the same light -- a product similar to another product but made of inferior materials. I don't trust CD-Rs too much, although I've never really had a problem with them. But I certainly don't trust them unless I burn them myself. I hope this is a fad that passes, like disposable paper dresses.

 

I too bought the original Al Jardine - Postcard From California CDR from amazon.com.

I knew what it was when I bought it. It is well presented and sounds very nice indeed - I think it's HDCD too?

Nevertheless, I would have preferred it to have been in hi-res on Blu-ray, DVD or SACD, but that goes for any CD release nowadays.

 

I wouldn't necessarily agree with this line of thinking. The availability of legal CD-Rs essentially adds to the supply of what would otherwise be a scarse item. While most of us in this forum are not interested in CD-Rs, that doesn't necessarily apply to the general public, who may be more than happy to purchase a CD that would otherwise be unavailable or our of their price range. There are countless examples of formerly expensive CDs that have plummeted in price once a reissue (albeit not always CD-R) becomes available.

 

Does anyone have a link for an example of what I should look out for?

I purchase quite a bit off Amazon, and would prefer to not get a CD-R.

 

On Amazon the CD-Rs are usually older albums from the major labels that have been out of print for a time. All the ones I have seen listed on Amazon clearly identify they are a CD-R in smaller type in the top half of the web page. While Amazon does not completely hide the fact they are CD-Rs, they certainly try to minimize its awareness on the web page.

I will say I have been seeing more of these things show up in used bins lately.

 

There are some other threads on this, so this decision by Amazon has attracked some attention here, and rightly so.

On one hand, I think that it is better for an album to be available on demand, even if it is on a cd-r, than not to be available at all.

But there are many concerns.

What is the source of those?
What are the details of the burning process, have these cb-r(s) burned on a computer, with what software, what burning speed, etc?
What is the band of the cd-r(s)?
What happens in the long run? Can I sell these?
Are these cd-r(s) equally reliable as the manufactured cds?
What about the artwork, is it photocopied or printed?

Unless these questions have been adequately addressed, I won't even think about getting any o those.

 

Here's Metropolis on the US Site. If you read far enough, it's clear it's CD-R, but I'm sure some folks don't read that far.

http://www.amazon.com/Metropolis-Or...=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1333046087&sr=1-1

 

Not necessarily. I have CD-Rs from the late '90s that have been stored in my car since I bought it new in 2001 (not the best storage environment), and they all still play fine. On the other hand, some folks have experienced CD rot with older pressed aluminum CDs.

 

So easy to miss....

 

On older albums now I always check to look for this line:

CD-R Note: This product is manufactured on demand when ordered from Amazon.com.

 

I too have become conditioned to look for that. With CD sales declining, lots of things are going out of print (a self-fulfilling prophecy). I was surprised to learn today that Amazon is selling CD-Rs on demand of Howard Jones Dream into Action and Human's Lib.

 

At the moment the used stores here refuse all CDRs. Refuse. They do sometimes appear in the bins (e.g. known or 'useful' live recordings).

It's hard to tell if this policy will change in the coming years. It's annoying to see a poorly printed cover on a CDR of some Zep concert and a price of $30 or more, and then also see someone delighted to buy it. Maybe they do begin to pay something for these, but it's difficult to see why.

OTOH, a while ago I could complete my 'Dr E' collections from the cheap bins.

Remember, as someone pointed out above, it's not just Amazon. Most regular disc production services offer a 'record' option along with 'pressed and printed', and for some artists this will be more viable.

 

Not always, though. I have bought two of these and they are new releases: Lobo's Propinquity and Levin Torn White. I assume these releases have never been available on regularly pressed CDs, so I settled for these CD-Rs. They have printed booklets and the CD-R itself is printed. Since these are new releases, there would be no reason to source the audio from mp3.