Beethoven Symphonies Josef Krips and LSO Classic Records Boxset?

http://www.classicrecords.com/item.cfm?item=SDBR 3065-200G-CLARITY

I was wondering if anyone has this or has heard it? Or is considering getting this? Or knows if there is a review or any reviews pending on this.
Any thoughts on these performances by Krips and the LSO would also be appreciated. I do not have any Beethoven symphonies on vinyl and I would like to have a set. I am considering this so any info is appreciated.

Thanks

 

I have not heard the Krips recordings. The sound should be very good indeed, but according to what I've read the performances are uniformly lackluster. If you are looking to drop coin on an audiophile Beethoven Symphonies LP box, get the Speakers Corner of Karajan/Berliner Philharmoniker's 60's cycle. It's one of the standards. Or seek out an original or 70's reissue. The good ones are mastered by Willem '320' Makkee (below).

 

These recordings have been issued on a multitude of budget labels for some time. Back in the late 1980s I picked up a 5 CD box of them for just £10 from my local supermarket. Even then the tapes didn't sound too good.

 

I think they were done for Everest in 1961.

 

The Everest label was subject to some awful pressings and reissues after its collapse in the early 60's. Here is the hype sheet from Classic's web site. I'm certain the 35MM master sounds very good, but also surprised it's even playable after all these years.

 

There is also the tin box CD edition for $14 (or $7 on the Marketplace)



http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Nine-Symphonies-Tin-Can/dp/B000JMK6G2

(check the review with comments by the CD mastering engineer)

 

Based on what I've heard of the Krips interpretations (admittedly, a long time ago), I wouldn't buy them; "lacklustre" is a good description.

 

I've owned these recordings in Everest vinyl copies that landed in the cut-out bins and in the tin box CD reissue. As performances of Beethoven symphonies, these may be the worst on the market. There is little emotion to be found here, the playing is seriously underpowered, low-level details disappear. About the only thing worth praising in the set is the sound quality, which ultimately is beat by many other sets of Beethoven symphonies recorded around the same time, like Walters' or Cluytens' or Karajan's. I guess the reason Classic Records decided to reissue this set has more to do with the low costs of licensing than due to any inherent quality.

The sad thing is that Joseph Krips was a wonderful conductor who made great recordings of the Mozart Symphonies and Schubert's Ninth, among others.

 

If you want to own one good Beethoven LP set, I would - like Eddie - recommend a Karajan DG (1963) set. The Speaker's Corner reissue is one option, but mint reissues for a small fraction of the price can also be found rather easily, at least here in Europe.

 

Thanks for the replies. Sounds like the Krips is not the way to go. I've had my eye on the Karajan for a while. I have the CD set of the Karajan Beethoven symphonies and I love the performances. I'll see if I can find a used copy on vinyl before I spring for the speaker corner set.

 

That was great. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

For years, the Krips set was available at budget prices (and with pressings to match) on the Publishers' Central Bureau house label, Murray Hill, organized in sequence for automatic changers. In fact, this very set was my first of the syms., and my first encounter with most of them, thanks to getting it for Christmas one year from my parents when I was an early teen. I got rid of it when a copy of the Toscanini commercial cycle came my way, during the period early on when I thought that one should have no more than one recording of any work, representing it in its "best" performance. (Cue "Dragnet" theme: dumb, dumb-DUMB-dumb!) I don't remember much about the Krips records now except that I played them a lot at the time and learned Beethoven through them. As I've noted elsewhere, I would avoid Karajan anytime, anywhere, in anything; if I were looking for a good, "basic library" set of the syms. today, I'd opt for Masur and the Gewandhaus Orchestra of Leipzig remastered for SACD on Pentatone, a real bargain if purchased with careful shopping to get the best price and a commendably "central" account of the music, on the whole allowing it to speak for itself while making sure that all its points tell, in quite presentable recorded sound.

 

For reasons that need not detain us, I picked up a copy of the Krips-in-a-tin-box edition at a Walmart a few weeks ago. I played through the recordings over a period of days, in some but not all cases comparing them with corresponding numbers from my copy of the Masur set (Pentatone SACD; to be fair and comparable, I played the straight stereo layer). As noted earlier, this was my first complete set and my introduction to most of the syms., but I had not played any of these recordings in decades. To return to them now was an eye- and ear-opening experience.

A quick word about packaging. The tin boxes have drawn considerable amused scorn in certain quarters, but I think they're actually quite handsome and an interesting alternative to the usual drab containers for bargain issues. Inside the box the discs are stored in a rather peculiar, but graphically coordinated, cardboard multi-panel folder with little rubber cylinders to secure them into their positions. The discs themselves are marked simply "Disc 1," "Disc 2," etc., so there's no way of telling their contents, or even that they contain music by Beethoven, without reference to the printed track list on the back of the tin or spread across a couple of disconnected panels of the folder. If the mfr. follows this approach with all its products, those owning more than just the Krips set could have problems with mixing up discs from different sets.

In general, if you are looking for someone who brings drama and power to the fore, Krips is not your man. That said, his more lyrical approach sometimes pays distinct dividends, and on occasion he does bestir himself to deliver the dramatic goods. Not infrequently, Krips gives a relatively weak account of a first movement, only to do better later. One definite point in his favor is the recorded sound, generally very warm and detailed. I remember, back when I first owned the set, that every time I played a sym. I would hear some new detail or other that I'd missed before. Well, after many years of acquaintance with these works in various performances of various vintages, imagine my surprise to have one or two more instances of that exact same experience upon making the set's reacquaintance.

Herewith a few specific notes:

Sym. no. 1: This is the dud of the set--a plod through and through.

Sym. no. 2: Definitely a genial account, especially in the fourth mvt., but still enjoyable.

Sym. no. 3: Also a good account.

Sym. no. 4: One of the high points of the set--very nice.

Sym. no. 5: Somewhat sluggish; the first mvt. in particular is underpowered. Not really a contender in a crowded field.

Sym. no. 6: When Robert C. Marsh reviewed the set for High Fidelity magazine in 1959 or 1960 (my copy is in an omnibus "Records in Review" volume covering July '59 to Dec. '60), he noted that Krips was a specialist in this work, and it shows: his performance is affectionate and lyrical. I've heard more dynamic thunderstorms, but after all, this is a downpour in the German countryside, not Hurricane Katrina, and Krips's concept is well within the bounds of reason.

Sym. no. 7: Another case of an underpowered first mvt., a bit slow and lacking punch. The remainder is better.

Sym. no. 8: The first and third mvts. are a bit slow for my taste, but the second is uncommonly lovely, and the fourth brings things to a satisfying conclusion.

Sym. no. 9: A decent account up to the final mvt., which is cut at a noticeably lower level than the others and begins with some offputting tape instability. Raising the volume to match its partners reveals that it lacks the others' winning clarity. Among the vocal soloists, the ladies generally have it better than the gentlemen; tenor Rudolf Petrak, in particular, has pronounced, not entirely agreeable vibrato. The choris is capable but more polite than dramatic. One nice detail: the march segment of the last mvt. has a delightful swing to it.

The 64--well, 9.99--dollar question: how does this set stack up as a "bargain" among many competitors? My selected comparisons to the Masur cycle found the Dresdeners at least matching and usually outperforming Krips and co. at nearly every turn, meaning that Masur remains my preference as a "basic library" edition of the syms. His interpretations, to my ear, are simply more centrally "Beethovenian." On the other hand, curiously, I thought the Krips recordings *as recordings* often to be more detailed and open, at least compared to the Pentatone stereo SACD layer. Masur's set can be had as a bargain on SACD, but, that said, it still will be substantially more expensive than the pittance that Walmart asks for the Krips recordings. Taking my own experience as a beginner into account, on that basis I'd say that Krips is just about good enough, on average, for a first taste of these works, understanding that anyone staying with the genre for very long will outgrow them and want to move on to more compelling accounts. Those wanting a loving account of no. 6 might also take note, as the rest of the set can be viewed as a nice "filler" for that item at a good deal less than one would pay for a full-priced single disc. Otherwise, I'd say the set just has too many weak points--especially the dreary no. 1 and low-voltage no. 5--to be competitive, even at the near-giveaway price.

 

The 6th was good - had that on an Allegro tape for a period - but agree with your comments.

 

I was tossing up whether to get this set when it came out on HDAD, but with the takeover by Acoustic Sounds, that may or may not happen (I have emailed Acoustic about the HDAD set but they never seem to answer emails and international calls are a pain to make and expensive).

Anyway, the Murray Hill was my introduction to the Beethoven Symphonies and to be honest I quite like the performances (I have noticed that often the very first performances of any work I hear are performances I will always like regardless).

Another set to think about is the Bohm release on Decca Original Masters. I am thinking of that set too - maybe in lieu of the Everest set or maybe getting both, since the Bohm is priced fairly for a set of this size, whereas of course the HDAD set comes at a pretty hefty premium.

For anyone who has bought the Classic Records vinyl set, I am curious to know what the sound is like compared to the rest of this reissue series.

As was pointed out earlier, Bert Whyte was quie consistent with getting a particular sonic result with his miking, though the sound still varies in these Classic Records reissues even with the exact same venue, orchestra and conductor. Sometimes the violins are not quite miked as well in comparison to the best of the releases.

Personally I actually prefer the Everest recordings made in the US, as the acoustics of the US venues are warmer and less in-your-face than the UK venues.