New Lexicon Blu-ray Player just a repackaged Oppo BDP-83 - Only $3000 More

[daglesj]

I imagine that bit saying "but they are wrong!" said in the voice of Stewie Griffin (Victory is mine!)

[monkboughtlunch]

An additional response from THX. A quote below from THX's Graham McKenna. Thoughts?

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/...-charges-3500/

THX’s Graham McKenna wrote to point out that there was actually some modification of the Oppo hardware:

"THX worked directly with Oppo to improve video performance during the testing of the Lexicon player and the benefits made their way to the Oppo platform as well. It’s also important to note that THX is solely focused on quality and performance. Product pricing is never a driving factor for receiving THX certification."

[CraigVC]

Originally Posted by monkboughtlunch

An additional response from THX. A quote below from THX's Graham McKenna. Thoughts?

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/...-charges-3500/

I'm a bit confused by that article. Maybe someone can help me sort it out?

First I am told that the Lexicon and Oppo have both been put through "audio analyses" and ". . . the units tested almost identically, no different than had they been two examples of the same model (which, really, they are)."

Then I read an update: "THX’s Graham McKenna wrote to point out that there was actually some modification of the Oppo hardware."

So does that mean if someone runs some "video analyses" (as opposed to "audio analyses") to compare the two units, they will find significant differences in the video performance?

I wonder why Audioholics reviewers didn't do any video testing, or did they? The article suggests that they only tested and compared the audio. While "audio" is part of their name, they are also touted as the “Online A/V Magazine," so shouldn't they have tested the "V" ("video") parts as well?

To recap: Shouldn't some comparison testing of the video performance of the respective units support or debunk Graham McKenna's claim that there were modifications?

Craig.

[MikeT]

Originally Posted by CraigVC

I'm a bit confused by that article. Maybe someone can help me sort it out?

First I am told that the Lexicon and Oppo have both been put through "audio analyses" and ". . . the units tested almost identically, no different than had they been two examples of the same model (which, really, they are)."

Then I read an update: "THX’s Graham McKenna wrote to point out that there was actually some modification of the Oppo hardware."

So does that mean if someone runs some "video analyses" (as opposed to "audio analyses") to compare the two units, they will find significant differences in the video performance?

I wonder why Audioholics reviewers didn't do any video testing, or did they? The article suggests that they only tested and compared the audio. While "audio" is part of their name, they are also touted as the “Online A/V Magazine," so shouldn't they have tested the "V" ("video") parts as well?

To recap: Shouldn't some comparison testing of the video performance of the respective units support or debunk Graham McKenna's claim that there were modifications?

Craig.

You missed the crux of his statment that: "the benefits made their way to the Oppo platform as well".

This means that as they were improving the video performance of the Lexicon player (which as we know is an Oppo BDP-83 in reality), the benefits were also made part of the stock Oppo you can buy for $499.00.

Remember Oppo consistently provides updated firmware for their players, and since they own the design of their player, I assume, they made their basic Oppo blu-ray the same as the modifications made while THX was testing the Lexicon player.

[CraigVC]

Originally Posted by MikeT

You missed the crux of his statment that: "the benefits made their way to the Oppo platform as well".

This means that as they were improving the video performance of the Lexicon player (which as we know is an Oppo BDP-83 in reality), the benefits were also made part of the stock Oppo you can buy for $499.00.

Remember Oppo consistently provides updated firmware for their players, and since they own the design of their player, I assume, they made their basic Oppo blu-ray the same as the modifications made while THX was testing the Lexicon player.

Ah, I think it makes sense now!

So there's likely zero difference in the performance of the two players, since the modifications were apparently done "up-stream" by Oppo, and were distributed back "down-stream" equally to both the $499 Oppo player and the $3,500 Lexicon player.

I think I got confused by Wired's preface to the quote, which seems misleading in light of a closer reading of the quote itself:

"THX’s Graham McKenna wrote to point out that there was actually some modification of the Oppo hardware."

The word "actually" suggested to me that THX's Graham McKenna was trying to refute the claims that the Oppo and Lexicon's players performance is identical, and to help justify the Lexicon's higher price.

But "the benefits made their way to the Oppo platform as well" sure sounds to me like McKenna is admitting there's virtually no difference in performance between the two units, as it's inconceivable (to me at least) that Oppo would intentionally cripple their own branded players to make them perform at a lower level than what they already provide to Lexicon.

So if I'm understanding everything accurately now, I would re-write Wired's preface to McKenna's quote as follows:

"THX’s Graham McKenna wrote to clarify that THX was initially dissatisfied with the video performance of the Lexicon player, which prompted some modification of the Oppo hardware. These modifications benefited Oppo's own branded players, as well as Lexicon's Oppo-based player."

It makes me wonder if earlier versions of Lexicon's Oppo-based player actually failed THX certification, and when THX notified Lexicon, Lexicon told THX to go work directly with Oppo on improvements.

It also makes me wonder if Lexicon is contractually prohibited from making the hardware improvements themselves, so their only option to achieve THX certification was to have Oppo and THX work together, and pass the modifications back down, via the hardware Oppo sends Lexicon.

The more I wonder about this situation, the more stinky it gets for Lexicon.

Craig.

[Metralla]

Originally Posted by CraigVC

So there's likely zero difference in the performance of the two players, since the modifications were apparently done "up-stream" by Oppo, and were distributed back "down-stream" equally to both the $499 Oppo player and the $3,500 Lexicon player.

Therefore the Oppo should be given a THX badge too.

[krlpuretone]

Originally Posted by MikeT

Remember Oppo consistently provides updated firmware for their players, and since they own the design of their player, I assume, they made their basic Oppo blu-ray the same as the modifications made while THX was testing the Lexicon player.

That's also assuming THX actually tested anything...

(other than the check)

[Shawn1968]

Originally Posted by MikeT

Remember Oppo consistently provides updated firmware for their players, and since they own the design of their player, I assume, they made their basic Oppo blu-ray the same as the modifications made while THX was testing the Lexicon player.

On a related note, I read that the Lexicon is not capable of receiving Oppo's firmware updates (apparently, this function has been disabled as it would show Oppo as the manufacturer).

[daglesj]

Essentially it appears THX is a badge that can be bought and in reality doesnt mean anything.

[Billy Budapest]

Wow. First this hits Slashdot, now Wired. Stereophile will be reporting on it soon. Lexicon sure looks like it has egg on its face. As I said before, I understand why Lexicon chose to rebadge the Oppo and why it priced it as it did, but this is really looking like an unwise move.

I wonder if Lexicon, in the face of all this bad press, will still continue to sell the player, or will pull it from the shelves?

[daglesj]

Originally Posted by Billy Budapest

Wow. First this hits Slashdot, now Wired. Stereophile will be reporting on it soon. Lexicon sure looks like it has egg on its face. As I said before, I understand why Lexicon chose to rebadge the Oppo and why it priced it as it did, but this is really looking like an unwise move.

I wonder if Lexicon, in the face of all this bad press, will still continue to sell the player, or will pull it from the shelves?

They could just reduce the price to say $800 like they should have in the first place.

I think the hi-fi community could have tolerated a reboxed unit at that cost.

Had they just swapped a couple of 50cent capacitors on the powersupply for ones of a different colour they would have gotten away with it totally.

[Nick_G]

Now, look here Lexicon, this is all getting rather silly. Right, right, stop it. This whole thing has got silly. Started off with a nice little idea about adding a Blu-ray player to your existing range, but now it's got silly. This player's internals are too cheap too. This scam has been pretty badly executed.

[JBStephens]

Might want to speak up a little bit, we can't quite hear you.

[Baron Von Talbot]

Blue-Ray Players are still a very rare breed - not only does it cos about 150.000 Euro for all the licensing stuff for the initial run, but what makes manufacturing Blue-Ray Players even more difficult is the amount of research and TM, that must be respected since this is a brand new technique - so there are not even a hand full of suppliers of Blue-Ray drives and most won't even start to sell you their BD drives for more than their finished product costs ! That means unless you are agreeing to buy at least 100.000 drives there simply is no deal - so manufacturers outside of the SONY Denon Pioneer LG range simply are not large enough to come up with their own Blue-Ray Drives.
How do i know ? The brand you guys like the name off most T+A just came up with the very first High End Blue Ray Player from an independent High End company in germany and this
s explais why the player costs 5.000 Euro. They shared such an order with the same supplier together with 2 more High End brands and of course added their own power supply, analogue section and software - still it took more than a one year delay till the player is on the market. This is about the most risky step they did financially and they can only do that since they have that much success with their Streamers and Media players - About 70 % of the yearly T+A sales are in the new media and they wanna trickle the top techniques down tp their new AV and All In One solutions - Still as costly as paying their 10 developers 5 year wages...


I am not saying this is an excuse for Lexcicon, but it seems to be a badly researched decision to come up with their 'own' Blue Ray Player long beore they are ready for it..

the new BD Player from Herford's Finest -http://www.h-e-w.de/Player/Blu-Ray-Player/BD-1260-R::1264.html not even pictures on the web , but in the HiFi mags they got some with 32 bit dac's and High End audio and evry ormat under the sun..

[Claude]

Here's the new low budget ($2500) Lexicon Blu-ray player:

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=4074

[McGruder]

I noticed in the images that the analog board is upside down, making it hard to determine if they scavenged from the BDP 83 or BDP 83SE. You would hope that they at least put the SE model parts in there.

BDP 83SE analog board

[Kal Rubinson]

Originally Posted by McGruder

I noticed in the images that the analog board is upside down, making it hard to determine if they scavenged from the BDP 83 or BDP 83SE. You would hope that they at least put the SE model parts in there.

BDP 83SE analog board

Compared side-to-side, it is apparent that Lex uses the 83 analog board, not the one from the 83SE.

[Feisal K]

Originally Posted by McGruder

You would hope that they at least put the SE model parts in there.

so it would be less of a rip-off?

actually I think the BD-30 development preceded the 83SE by some time. of course there's nothing to stop them from using the newer SE board now

[nelamvr6]

It is a stock BDP-83 in the Lexicon case, not an SE.

[Feisal K]

IIRC Philips are using LG panels, but add their own processing engine in the displays