New Order - Substance 1987: what are the different CD masterings?

Hi,

I'm hoping you guys can enlighten me on the various different masterings available on the CD version of this title.

I only have the Factory/London Records version made in Germany 3984 28227 2. It appears to be a early-2000s or so version, since it has the London Records URL on the rear insert.

It sounds decent, no compression, however is the FACT200 version better or different?

I found this website which goes into very good detail on the different versions, but speaks nothing of the sound.

 

To the best of my knowledge, all versions of Substance share the same mastering. The London edition has all the hallmarks of 80s CD mastering: steep rolloff above 20KHz, highs slightly delayed due to going through an analog low-pass filter before reaching the ADC. All of them have the glitches in "True Faith", the edits to "The Perfect Kiss", "Shellshock" and "Sub-Culture", and the slightly-different mix of "In A Lonely Place".

AFAIK, London didn't remaster the discs after they took on distribution. They're digitally identical to the old Factory discs.

 

I asked this same question a few months ago. All version I bought had the same mastering, as far as I could tell. My keeper was the Factory. Great set of music!!

 

I don't know about mastering, wikipedia points out some different track listing between the CD/DAT, Cassette, and Vinyl versions. Basicly some tracks edit out bits of the 12 inch versions to fit the medium, and they re-recorded "Temptation" and "Confusion" in '87

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance_(New_Order_album)

 

Thanks! I wasn't sure if I needed to go hunting down a FACT200 for sound quality.

Yes, good to get the LP too, if you have a turntable.

 

So my old US Substance disc 2 kicked the bucket, couldn't get a accurate rip, skips and all, I've had it since 91, so I searched out the Austria for Germany Rough Trade RTCD 50 from 1990 and it appears to have different levels from the US Quest, I did cd1 for comparison
US Quest 99.1/89.7/88.1/99.2/80.5/79.4/83.3/84.7/92.6/91.7/95.8/90.0
RTCD50 97.3/93.4/95.2/100/87.4/88.7/82.5/86.2/91.0/100/97.0/80.6

 

I would love to have our host remaster this for AF Gold SACD/CD.

that would be epic!

 

I have a few different versions of this one coming. I'll post EAC numbers when I get them.

 

Thanks Kevin, will be interesting, One of the few albums/comps I feel sounds better than the lp

 

I have two versions, a Columbia House version that comes in two jewel cases, and a Qwest version in the fatboy double case. Something notable is on the Columbia House version, the very beginning of Confusion is cut off (I mean like a few milliseconds).

 

I was never that enamored with the original Factory cd release: washed out, flat, bland sound with little detail. However, nice to get all these tracks in one collection. Never owned the lp or cassette .

 

It may be an indexing timing issue, mine is off also on my US SRC Qwest, but is correct on my RT
If I let it flow after Blue Monday gap less my US is correct, I think the track split is off

 

It'd be interesting to see a box of 4xLP of the CD version with the second disc, but that probably will never happen. The second disc is more just a bonus disc anyway, Disc 1 is the meat of the album.

 

Substance is a great album, and an essential part of my collection. There isn't much I can add to what's already been said here, except that when the first five studio albums were remastered a good number of tracks that made up Substance wound up as bonus tracks on those albums, and I think they sound far superior to the Substance tracks. The Low-Life remaster even includes Dub Vulture which is a terrific complement to the 12" version of Subculture (also included on that disc). Curiously there are some missing/different bonus tracks on these releases though. The 12" version of The Perfect Kiss is included, but not The Kiss Of Death, which really is the essential companion to that track. The remastered release of Movement does have Ceremony and the 7" and 12" mixes of Temptation added as bonus tracks, but they aren't the versions that appear on Substance.

I'm going into so much detail here because I've attempted to recreate Substance as a playlist using tracks from the various albums when possible. It doesn't work though because the tracks from Substance sound dull compared to the remastered versions. Perfect Kiss sounds awesome, but Kiss Of Death sounds soft and weak next to it. I'm left to wonder why they didn't tackle that track as well.

Other than that, the bonus versions of In A Lonely Place, Everything's Gone Green, Procession, Mesh, and Hurt sound great. Thieves Like Us (12" version plus the 12" instrumental version), Blue Monday, The Beach, and Lonesome tonight sound great remastered. And so I'm trying to figure out how to sort all of this mixing and matching into a perfect version of Substance that betters any of the releases of that album to date. If anybody here knows what they did to the remasters to make them sound so much better, I'd really appreciate that information. I'm okay with most of this collection drawing from both the remasters and Substance, but I used to have the 12" vinyl of all their singles, and miss being able to flip Perfect Kiss over to hear Kiss Of Death the most. That was a killer single.

So if, between us, we can ace an ideal version of Substance that would be the best version IMO, but I don't know if that's possible.

 

Dang, I never replied in this thread! [From the other "non-Substance" New Order thread, I'm listening to them now. ] I have the Qwest, UK Factory, and CY50 Jpn discs now. First, the CY50 and Nimbus Factory are the same:

97.2/93.5/94.9/100/87.2/88.6/82.4/86.1/90.8/100/97.0/80.5//77.3/95.9/90.4/93.1/100/83.4/78.9/81.6/71.9/95.6/95.8/74.0

The US Qwest is different:

99.9/89.7/88.1/99.2/80.5/79.4/83.3/84.7/92.6/91.7/95.8/90.0//67.2/90.1/78.9/72.6/96.0/78.4/79.9/70.2/64.9/75.1/85.9/94.1

And then from up above, c-eling's Austria for Germany RTCD50:

97.3/93.4/95.2/100/87.4/88.7/82.5/86.2/91.0/100/97.0/80.6

Seems pretty close to the CY50 and UK Factory too. But I don't know if those small differences mean anything.

Anyone know which sounds better? (I will listen to the two versions I have shortly. Hopefully it won't take me another ~year and a half to respond!)

 

When I finally found a Nimbus I expected to find a substantial (no pun intentended) difference from the Qwest and I didn't at the time. I suppose it's time for another comparison.

 

Does anyone else have any other versions? I'm curious about these too:

2xCD: FR 1987 (Virgin 30103)
2xCD: CA 1987 (PolyGram 832 616-2)

 

The Canadian release is the same as the UK/Jpn. So the US Qwest is seemingly the only unique mastering so far.

 

OK, so we have the US Qwest as different, and the Jpn 50CY the same as the UK Nimbus the same as the Canadian 832. Here is the French 30103 (made by DADC in Austria):

d1: 95.2 90.3 92.4 100.0 84.5 87.1 82.4 82.3 88.2 96.4 94.2

d2: 77.3 95.9 90.4 93.1 100.0 83.4 78.9 81.6 71.9 95.6 95.8

D2 is the same as the UK Nimbus, etc. D1 is different. It's not a constant multiplier or delta from the UK Nimbus, etc. I bet it's the same, but ... stay tuned.

 

Different mastering or just different peak levels?

 

Different levels meaning different mastering, going by Steve's and Barry D's definition, for me with some mastering's where it's just a plain level shift if normalized I probably wouldn't notice the difference between the two, but some could be EQ tweaked, a good example is OMD's Pacific Age, a very noticeable difference between the UK/Euro and Japan for US