Electrical wiring replacement question for my audio gear

Hi,

I just bought a house and am anxious to finally have a room to let my music and HT system come alive.

I've been living in apartments since forever, and realize that the wall power is inadequete for my gear to achieve its optimal performance. The house I am buying was built in 1984.

Before I move in, I was considering having an electrician come out to run a dedicated line (or two) to where my A/V gear will be. Here's what I have in mind:

1) A 20amp line dropped to where my A/V gear will be running to. This will include a big 55" HDTV, pre-amp, SACD player, 350W sub, 200x5 Anthem amp, DSS box, etc. All will be running through a Panamax component series surge protector.

2) A second 20amp line just for my McIntosh MC402 400watt stereo amp. I'm really serious about two channel and want this baby to gooble up all the power it needs and not have to worry about all the other A/V junk hogging the power.

Overkill? What do you think?

 

Gary,

Yes, yes yes! I definitely will have the electrician out to wire before I move in. I gave myself a "move-in" cushion of 3+ weeks so we can take our time.

I'd like to know more about the earth ground. A standard house would not have something like this already? Would it 100% eliminate a strike?

 

But Gary, I thought you were a professional electrician? Oh yeah, I remember now...you play one on TV!

I gotta ask...where's your avatar?

 

Great Idea!
I am thinking of doing the same thing.
IMO
I would get Cryo-tempered house wiring from
http://home.comcast.net/~ridgestreetaudio/Pricing.html
It is not very expensive and why not get that extra edge...
Robert is a really nice person and I am sure will offer free advice to assist you in the decisions. He sells power cords etc. (There is another thread where I got the referral - he sells silver foils speaker wire too.)

IMO
I would run separate lines for all the digital stuff.
I would run separate line for the analog stuff
If possible I would love to have a separate line for the TV. apparently TVs add a lot of noise to the line like DVD players.

When I had AC installed they upgraded my box to 220 and installed a earth ground. It was a 10'+ ~1/2" solid copper rod that was driven into the ground and connected to the box ground.

 

Clay, thanks for the suggestions.

Can you give me an approximate cost breakdown for what I should expect to pay for some of these improvements?

 

Hi Sam,
Robert does individual quotes, yet for my length he offered $1.40 a foot for the Cryo-tempered house wiring. I am not sure how much Romax is yet it is probably more than 50 cents a foot.

A new box is around $800 installed.
A new sub box would be less.
I guess $100 for the box and $20 each for breakers.
$100 labor for the box and new outlets are about $100 each installed
Figure $150 for all 3 together.
Suggest getting upgraded wall outlets - like hospital grade from local hardware store or on line or better from Robert. $25 each +

I am guessing at all these prices.
$100 box
$ 60 breakers (or plus 1 more if running new box off a breaker in old box)
$ 75 3 upgraded electrical outlets
$250 labor for box and outlets (more or less depending on ease of access)
$140 Cryo-tempered wire for 3 33' runs
----------------------
$625 total. Best guess (so figure about $700 inc. taxes shipping etc)

Option:
$100 for a ground rod (total guess) you may already have one and it depends on how close to the box it is installed. I guess $50 for the rod and $50 to install it.

All labor is estimated at ~$60 an hour

 

Clay,

Yikes! Thanks for the breakdown. I don't think I need to go that "whole hog" into it. I was hoping for $150-$200 I could get new wiring from the panel for dual 20amp lines+circuits+new outlets. Would I need a whole new box?

 

Hi Sam,

I would imagine you could run 2-3 new breakers and 2-3 new outlets for $150-$200.
If your box is full of breakers already, just get 1/2 height ones.
6 1/2 height ones replace 3 regular height ones.
My guy charges about $100 to wire a house fan where there was no ceiling light, so I imagine 2-3 new outlets in one location would be about $200.

You can always upgrade the outlets later from the $1.50 each ones.

I was thinking if you had a sub box you may get better isolation from the rest of the house if it ran off the main. It is also necessary if the box is already full of 1/2 height breakers or it is an old Zinsco 120v box, that is only rated for limited breakers.

The total cost will depend on ease of access and cost of parts. In CA the regular electricians charge $87 an hour so I get a retired guy to do the work for ~$50.

As I understand it, TVs are bad for stereo. Last time I had a noise/hum problem my expert friend said "Is the stereo connected to the TV?" "Try unplugging the s video cable."

 

I just had my listening room in a house I just bought wired. It cost me $500.00 dollars for six 20 amp lines. Yeah Baby! The electrician thought it was overkill, maybe so, but in the world of audiophiles a $500.00 up grade ain't too bad.

 

I had hum with my tv as well. I installed a M.A.G.I.C ground isolation device on the cable going to the reciever, that took care of the problem.

 

In terms of a dedicated ground rod, there are some things to keep in mind. there is a link I'm trying to find, but as I remember it, if you use a separate ground rod you still have to tie it to the existing ground or something like that. You don't want to end up with different ground potentials between the dedicated system ground and the house ground.

Also, if you're really into dedicated grounds, the hot setup is apparently a very large (like the size of an average backyard or bigger) piece of heavy wire mesh buried flat, instead of a rod.

John k.

 

I'd run 3, 14-2's. One for my audio, one for my video and one for my stereo.

 

Whoa! That would be a little overkill for me

Cosmik: what exactly are 14-2's?

Clay: more good info, indeed. So would an electrician get mad if I supplied my own sockets and breakers?

 

My electrician did not get mad when I gave him outlets that I had purchased. Of course a licensed electrician will not install anything that does not meet code.

 

Sam,

My approach would be to try to get the quote based on parts and labor.
The sockets the electrician installs are very inexpensive so it my not affect his price much. I am sure he will be happy to install hospital grade outlets for you or special romax

You may be able to save money on the breakers if he marks them up, otherwise most trade guys and home owners get stuff at home depot anyway. These may not be worth it so I would just use what he provides.

 

All good ideas, and the earth ground that Gary mentioned also a real good idea (PS audio recommends it on their stuff and their replacement outlets are wire for it). If I ever remodel big time I plan to do the same. Consider using the in wall electrical wire from JPS labs it is UL approved.

 

Clay,

I will call some electricians to see what their policy is on special outlets or if the would let me provide my out. I'm just thinking that any amount he marks up the outlets goes straight into his pocket, when I could easily get the same thing.

ALP, tell me more about my grounding options.

 

SamS, PS Audio's replacement wall sockets have the provision to have a separate ground for what is plug into that outlet. You have to run a ground wire from it to a grounding stake in the actual ground. A good electrician will understand. You should by the outlets for him to install and he should not mark them up. They are not cheap ($50.00). The PS Audio power plants (highly recommended have the option of being run on such a socket. Go to the PS audio web site (A really good site or call them, they are very helpful).

 

14-2=15A, 12-2=20A

 

Thanks for explaining.

Now I'm still confused if about the 20amp line. If I get a 20amp breaker, would I put a 15amp socket on it? I know there are special 20amp sockets/plugs, but I was under the impression you can get the 20amp line and it would work line a 15amp line.

ALP: If I did a grounding rod, would this give me 100% protection from lightning or other drastic (equipment-damaging) event?

 

The following link gives a perfect example and explanation of a typical house ground. House grounds are for the protection of the home owner from being shocked/electrocuted. The current code here in MA requires 2, 8 foot grounds 6 feet apart.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home_improvement/home_owner_clinic/2001/3/March_2001/

If you are worried about lightning, I'd suggest installing a lightning rod at each end of the house and run a wire from them to a separate earth ground.


I had given an example of a DC current formula ( Duh ). It was late and realized later that you need to calculate the true power of an AC circuit a bit differently. Since we don't know your components internal reactance/resistance the max amperage value can not be determined mathematically.

Int. Res. = The square route of (R squared + (RC squared - RL squared))

Then you can calculate

I = V / R


I am quite sure the rest of your equipment can run on two separate 15 amp lines (1 audio, 1 video). I'm surprised noone has come up with a power consumption rating for the tube amp. I may be wrong, but I can't see it using more than 8-9 amps.

Kevin

 

Kevin,

Thanks for the explanation.

I suppose you're probably correct, dual 15amp lines should probably do it. I'm not terribly concerned about lightning, rather just a little uneasy about plugging my $5K stereo amp into the wall with no type of protection from surges.