Becker and Fagen: was it really 50/50?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by sugarplumfairy, Jul 11, 2009.

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  1. sugarplumfairy

    sugarplumfairy New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Columbia, SC
    This has probably been discussed, but didn't know how to search it.

    Has there ever been documentation on Steely Dan's songwriting process? From all appearances, they maintain the image that it's a half and half group. For whatever reason I get the impression that Fagen's imprint is larger than Becker's. The higher quality of his solo albums lead me to believe that he is a much stronger songwriter, plus his solo albums sound pretty close to Steely Dan.

    Is it known who contributed what to each album, song, etc?
     
  2. I can't answer your question exactly, but, have you heard Becker's "11 Tracks of Whack"? Not so sure you'd say Fagen's solo efforts were of such higher quality than the "group" efforts. 11 Tracks lets you hear just how much of an influence Becker was on the Steely Dan sound.
     
  3. bigmikerocks

    bigmikerocks Forum Resident

    +1
     
  4. Slokes

    Slokes Cruel But Fair

    Location:
    Greenwich, CT USA
    My impression from watching the "Aja" Classic Albums video documentary was that Fagen was the "harder" member of the duo, who knew what he wanted in the studio and didn't spend a lot of time working on justifying it, whereas Becker worked more at diplomacy and seemed less willing to pan someone's musical contribution (I'm thinking of a scene IIRC where the two men sit at a console listening to various guitarists try their hand at the "Peg" solo, with Fagen laughing while Becker tries to say something nice.)

    Also, Fagen was the lead singer, and his keyboard work tended to dominate the instrumental mix. So the impression of him being in charge is pretty understandable.
     
  5. His Masters Vice

    His Masters Vice W.C. Fields Forever

    You could also try Becker's recent "Circus Money" album.
     
  6. During their hiatus in the 80's, I saw it written that Donald Fagen can't ever finish a song and Walter Becker can't really start one. Although not literally true, I think that statement gives some insight into what each brings to the table.
     
  7. tommy-thewho

    tommy-thewho Senior Member

    Location:
    detroit, mi
    Interesting thread. Great combination for sure....
     
  8. sugarplumfairy

    sugarplumfairy New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Columbia, SC
    I've been listening to Gaucho all week. It's hardly anyones favorite album of theirs, but I think the highs (Time Out Of Mind) are higher than any other Dan album.
     
  9. shokhead

    shokhead Head shok and you still don't what it is. HA!

    Location:
    SoCal, Long Beach
    Just watch and listen to two against nature DVD. That should answer most questions.
     
  10. To me, a lot of the cynicism and witty lyrics (and a sense of tighter editing) are a result of Becker's influence. I think he keeps Donald grounded and keeps him some distance away from sci-fi fantasies about flying cars and robot women.

    When I hear them interviewed, Walter is a better storyteller. As for the music and their overall sound, I think Donald is the "most important" element, though.
     
  11. >I can't answer your question exactly, but, have you heard Becker's "11 Tracks of Whack"? Not so sure you'd say Fagen's solo efforts were of such higher quality than the "group" efforts. 11 Tracks lets you hear just how much of an influence Becker was on the Steely Dan sound.<

    Thumbs up!

    This has been exactly my impression too, and from day one of hearing it! Am really glad to finally hear some positive comments about Whack, adding to the three or four other ones I have read over all these years...
     
  12. shokhead

    shokhead Head shok and you still don't what it is. HA!

    Location:
    SoCal, Long Beach
    11 Tracks of Whack didn't do it for me.
     
  13. JA Fant

    JA Fant Well-Known Member

    IMO, I doubt 50/50. I was thinking 60/40 with Fagen taking the lead.
     
  14. gilbert green

    gilbert green Forum Resident

    Actually, it's my favourite, with "glamor profession" being best of all.

    it's impossible for us to know if it was 50-50...as it is all so guarded, but from a personal point of view, what gives The Dan an edge is Fagen's voice delivering those lyrics...:love:
     
  15. Baron Von Talbot

    Baron Von Talbot Well-Known Member

    They are like one person in two bodies..just hear them talk, one starts a sentence, the other finishes or completes it ,a unique combination that simply works. Guess the influences vary a lot from song to song, album to album or time to time...
     
  16. chewy

    chewy Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Coast USA
    sorry, 11 tracks of whack *totally* did it for me. just discovered it recently, and i was all: "my GOD, this is SO awesome!"
     
  17. I'm not so sure about the 50/50 on this album simply because Becker wasn't able to play on the album and I always got the impression (don't ask me where from because I have no clue so much time has passed since I read the source and I might have misunderstood it) that Fagan dominated that album more so than the other ones.
     
  18. I got the Japanese edition with the 12th whack. I guess one more whack got me in line.
     
  19. rjp

    rjp Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    "circus money" was much better than "11 tracks of whack" IMHO.

    but no matter how you slice it, walter becker is just not a very good singer.
     
  20. audiotom

    audiotom I can not hear a single sound as you scream

    Location:
    New Orleans La USA
    Becker and Fagen

    what writing partnership still are close friends and don't despise each other? few

    the making of aja dvd is one of the few where the main participants are actually in the same room together

    I don't buy the walter was less critical end - he was letting donald be the bad cob in that exchange

    I used to hang out on the banyan trees steely dan site - hey st al
    this was discussed ad infinitum - with many speculating on who did what
    11wacksofcrack - i like the lyrics but could never get into the sound or voice
    circus monkey is better and utilizes the girls background voices to sooth out walter's

    these albums give us insight into walter's contribution
    also on tours don throws walter a bone and lets him sing
    I would assume he chooses songs that Walter had a big contribution to

    Daddy don't live in that nyc - is quite pointedly funny
    gaucho - a jilted homosexual love triangle
    monkey in your soul - catchy funk groove

    walter does seem to play the same damn blues lick all night long
    I really enjoyed his bass playing on Everthing Must Go
    too bad they put some really weak tunes up front on that disc

    is walter the master editor to donald's major novelist role?
    that's too generous to Donald
    whatever may be they have been a great foil for each other

    larry charlton used to arrange horn and other parts from their original demos
    he states in Aja dvd - "they would give me the demos with those great piano parts, great jazz chords... "

    Roger Nichols states "they both had the completed songs in their heads and when a band wasn't cutting it, they would be like, no that's not it"

    that sounds pretty collective to me

    in the end - based on solo work
    is Donald the helpless romantic Great Pagoda of Fun is a real gem from MTC
    and Walter the satirical element slang of ages
    chances are there is overlap and they really complement each other
     
  21. jkauff

    jkauff Senior Member

    Location:
    Akron, OH
    I think this comment says it all. :righton:
     
  22. Well, I don't think there's much question regarding that.
     
  23. There are a lot of singers that aren't very good that spring to mind...who due to their skills as a songwriter and quirky voices I'm more than willing to listen to.

    I'm sure there are a lot of people who can think of one or two as well.
     
  24. I have personnaly never had any problem with WB's voice on Whak (and on a few of the live Dan tracks I have heard so far). Yes it's laid back (not at all my usual cup of tea!), and I prefer Fagen's high pitch, all angular and tensed. But it's not as if he had been trying to sing something outside his range and failed, by forcing his voice or by singing out of tune...
     
  25. Rosskolnikov: >I think he keeps Donald grounded and keeps him some distance away from sci-fi fantasies about flying cars and robot women.<

    I am not so sure about that: Hat Too Flat is a Sci-Fi tale.
     
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