Bruce Springsteen Ticketing Bill

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by GLUDFSSR, Jun 3, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. GLUDFSSR

    GLUDFSSR Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Bruce Springsteen has won several Grammys, an Oscar, been inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and earned unofficial sainthood among his millions of followers. Now the rock icon is getting yet another accolade: his own piece of federal legislature.

    Following the well-documented ticket fiasco of Springsteen's recent New Jersey dates, where fans were shut out or directed immediately to Ticketmaster's resale site, TicketExchange, New Jersey Rep. Bill Pascrell is introducing the BOSS ACT into Congress. While the acronym stands for Better Oversight of Secondary Sales and Accountability in Concert Ticketing, it's an obvious nod to Springsteen, who's nicknamed the Boss.

    The legislature could be a potential boom for ticket buyers frustrated by scalpers and hard-to-get tickets. Among the bill's most important aspects is a requirement by ticket agencies like Ticketmaster to reveal -- seven days before the on-sale date -- exactly how many seats are being sold, how many are being held for fan clubs, presales and industry, and the total number of service charges. The legislature would also attempt to prohibit brokers from buying tickets in the first 48 hours following an on-sale.

    The New Jersey Attorney General has already filed five lawsuits against people attempting to resell tickets to the just-announced Springsteen Giants Stadium shows on Sept. 30, and Oct 2-3.

    Springsteen has yet to comment on the bill, but there is one down side: The veteran rocker has long lamented the Boss nickname, even frequently changing the lyrics in the live version of 'Rosalita' to "You don't have to call me lieutenant Rosie, just don't call me Boss!" No chance of shaking that name now.
     
  2. Pdog

    Pdog Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    I think it is necessary for oversight regarding how concert tix are sold. I'm a get one cheap in the parking lot kinda guy, but so many people get raked over the coals, b/c of fear and panic about getting tix to shows. It really has angered me how brokers just basically went from planting people in lines and on computers, to just getting the tickets from prmoters, not even allowing fans a chance. It needs to be made illegal and enforced, especially considering how much some tickets cost too...
     
  3. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    Location:
    Eastern Shore
    When Bruce and Azoff oversold his Verizon show here in DC last month, I decided to take a pass. Unless they revamp the system of selling tickets, anyone that gets them online is made to feel like a chump. As these prices, nosebleed tickets just aren't worth it. If you ask me, these Ticketmaster sweetheart skimming deals with the artists for the best seats and so-called "superfan" packages are a real Frankenstein--the parties' underlying greed will eventually bring down big venue shows. Whatever you call it, this legislation is long overdue.
     
  4. GLUDFSSR

    GLUDFSSR Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Update: Backstreets.Com

    AN UPDATE ON TICKETING ISSUES FROM JON LANDAU June 22
    Somehow, a new flurry of interest has been created around Thrill Hill's ticket holds for the recent Izod Center shows. These are the same shows that became such a subject of controversy when they went on sale on February 2nd. The new theory is that Bruce's holds were the problem on February 2nd, and not Ticketmaster's already acknowledged failures on that day. But the truth is that Bruce's holds had nothing to do at all with the breakdown of Ticketmaster's system.

    These are the undisputed facts about February 2nd. On that morning, when our fans went to buy their Bruce and Band tickets for the face value of $95, they were in many cases immediately linked to Ticketmaster's wholly owned ticket reselling company TicketsNow, where prices were many times higher than $95. We call this "bait and switch." As a result, an undetermined but large amount of money flowed into TicketsNow (and eventually Ticketmaster) even though there were still tickets at normal prices yet to be made available on Ticketmaster. We perceived this to have been a major abuse of our fans, complained about it mightily, and added that because of behavior like this, the pending merger of the number one ticketing company and number one management company (both owned by Ticketmaster) with the number one venue owner and operator (Live Nation) might not be such a hot idea.

    How do we know that all this is true?

    1. On February 2nd, when the ticket fiasco occurred, Ticketmaster's CEO wrote to Bruce, myself, and our fans to generously apologize, which apology we promptly and graciously posted on our site. The letter stated that the problem was the product of an inexplicable "glitch."

    2. The volume of complaints received by New Jersey Attorney General Anne Milgram exceeded anything ever experienced before and she ultimately secured a consent degree from Ticketmaster, in which they promised that some of their practices ("glitches") with regard to its sister company TicketsNow will never be repeated.

    3. The CEO of Ticketmaster openly testified as to their responsibility for these "glitches" in front of Committees of Congress.

    Based on all of the above, we can safely conclude that on February 2nd, Ticketmaster transferred legitimate requests for tickets at face value over to their TicketsNow site, where they could charge people hundreds and hundreds more dollars for the same ticket. The amount of additional profit generated by scalper type prices through this now famous "glitch" remains unknown. Whether this was merely an extremely profitable "glitch" for Ticketmaster/TicketsNow or something else, we have no way of knowing.

    Last Sunday, June 14, the Newark Star Ledger ran an article entitled "Springsteen withheld best tickets from the public at NJ concert, records show." This is the same article that the Star Ledger runs whenever we do a few indoor shows in New Jersey. It suggested that we were in someway responsible for the Ticketmaster/TicketsNow problem. On Thursday, June 18, Hits Magazine ran a summary of this article, On Friday, June 19, Ticketmaster's Chairman attacked Bruce personally in the New York Post, in an article called "Ticket Blitzkrieg." In this article, Ticketmaster's Chairman deploys by implication Ticketmaster's new line: despite their apology, despite the consent decree with Attorney General Milgram, and despite their testimony in Congress, the ticket catastrophe was actually Bruce's fault.

    Of course, the only thing wrong with the Chairman's spin is that it's flatly untrue. He is merely using the time honored tradition of blowing smoke to distract attention away from Ticketmaster's already acknowledged responsibility for their "glitches" on February 2nd, the on-sale date of the two Izod Center shows.

    Now lets talk a little about Thrill Hill's ticket practices. Perhaps the first thing to be said is that when we play New Jersey, our fans know that we are usually going to do more than two indoor shows in order to ensure, among other things, that during the course of a tour, Springsteen tickets will be plentiful so as many fans as possible will have a chance to get great seats (hence the five upcoming shows at Giants Stadium.) As our fans also know, we have kept all of our tickets under $100 and do all that we can to ensure that as many as possible are sold at face value.

    Yes, we do hold significant numbers of tickets when we play New Jersey, New York and Los Angeles, as does every arena headliner. These holds are used by Bruce, his band members, and longtime members of his extended organization, their families and close relations; by the record label for their staff, for reviewers, and for radio stations; by charities who are provided with tickets for fund raising purposes, such as special auctions; for service people who help us on a year-round basis; and for other similar purposes. Unlike some Ticketmaster managed artists, no tickets are held for high dollar resale on TicketsNow, or through any other means.

    Where are the Bruce holds? The 2,000 to 3,500 tickets closest to the stage are on the floor and more than 95% of them go to the public, making the basic premise of the Star Ledger headline inaccurate. Secondly, with regard to seats held in the best sections on either side, we always blend guest seats with fan seats so that there are never any sections consisting entirely of guest seats.

    In addition, it is well known that we sometimes release a significant number of excellent tickets on the day of the show at the box office, which can only be bought with direct entrance to the venue. It's known as the "drop." Many think that is done on purpose to help combat the scalpers who prey on fans at the last minute. That is a good thought.

    (Also, in connection with the Izod Center shows in particular, we released some of our holds to Attorney General Milgram to go into the lottery she created to help deal with people who were penalized by the Ticketmaster/TicketsNow "glitch" on February 2nd.)

    Those are our ticket practices, as they have evolved over more than 30 years of experience. Does anyone seriously imagine that any element of these practices caused Ticketmaster to redirect ticket requests to TicketsNow for the Izod Center shows? What would our incentive have been? It's not we who earned vastly larger sums when fans paid way over the face value of the tickets. It was Ticketmaster/TicketsNow.

    Final thoughts: We have no interest in having an ongoing conflict with Ticketmaster/TicketsNow or anyone else. That has not been part of our history. And it is generally not our purpose to spend time on this site on matters of this kind. But we do get upset when we see fans being taken advantage of, as they were on February 2nd. So, when that stuff stops happening (and the Ticketmaster/TicketsNow problems surrounding our recent show in Washington D.C. shows that these issues are far from resolved) we will stop complaining. And when the facts cease to be misrepresented, we will stop explaining.
     
  5. bigmikerocks

    bigmikerocks Forum Resident

    i hope this paves the way for national laws governing ticket re-sale and ticketbastards policies/procedures. it's such b.s. the way it works now
     
  6. Reader

    Reader Senior Member

    Location:
    e.s.t. tenn.
    I think there should be national laws overseeing ticket sales for all events. The abuse that the average person has to put up with to see whatever is unbelievable. I've given up seeing anything unless it is in a small club due to the aggravation of dealing with Ticketmaster and other outfits like them. I can't use the language I want to use to describe my feelings about them. They will never get another penny of my money, I don't care who is playing. This is one instance where much government control is welcome as far as I'm concerned. Good for N.J.
     
  7. bigmikerocks

    bigmikerocks Forum Resident

    well said +1,000 !!!!!

    :cheers:
     
  8. dolstein

    dolstein Senior Member

    Location:
    Arlingon, VA
    I think it's a great idea to require Ticketmaster to reveal how many seats are being sold. In addition to requiring disclosure of service charges, I wish they'd require that ticket *PRICES* be announced in advance and that the seating areas corresponding to each price level be disclosed. Lately, there have been a few concerts (like the Van Morrison Astral Weeks concerts) where pricing information wasn't available until right before tickets went onsale, and even then pricing information is available, it's often hard to figure out which seats correspond to which pricing tier. More transparency is definitely needed.
     
  9. hangwire13

    hangwire13 Forum Resident

    Location:
    pittsburgh
    This is the only part of this bill I disagree with. We have a free-enterprise capitalist system here in the good ol' USA--as long as a single broker is obeying the ticket limit rule per-person that most shows have, they have every right to try to get the best seats just like everyone else. Okay, I know brokers are known to hire "shills" (so to speak) to buy blocks of tickets for them for hot shows, but hey, the shills are competing for the tickets too. As long as no one has an unfair advantage, keep the market free.

    The rest of the bill is spot-on though, and AFT! Pass this puppy!
     
  10. Reader

    Reader Senior Member

    Location:
    e.s.t. tenn.
    I disagree with the previous post. The tickets should be sold to people that want to see the show. If after a period of time, 48 hours or so, the tickets aren't sold then maybe they could be sold to these brokers. The brokers are taking advantage of people. A concert or show is not just about money for many people. I know that most things boil down to the bottom line but they don't always have to.

    To me this is a case of it may be legal but it's not right. This is just what I think about the subject, feel free to disagree.

    The performers themselves should be concerned about these problems and do what they can to fix things.
     
  11. Todd E

    Todd E Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood-adjacent
    It's customary (and courteous) to source such items. The post I linked to looks copied from somewhere else, as well.
     
  12. bigmikerocks

    bigmikerocks Forum Resident

    i'm with you. i don't buy the free-trade idea when it comes to stuff like this.

    i think they should make it illegal to re-sell concert tickets at over the face value of the ticket

    i think that would stop most of this hassle. or make all ticketing paperless, where you have to pick up the tickets after you enter the venue somehow. that would be a pain, but a lot less pain then trying to buy concert tickets these days
     
  13. hangwire13

    hangwire13 Forum Resident

    Location:
    pittsburgh
    Thats just plain crazy. What kind of communist crap is this? Who is the govt to tell me how much money I can profit on a private sale????

    [/QUOTE]i think that would stop most of this hassle. or make all ticketing paperless, where you have to pick up the tickets after you enter the venue somehow. that would be a pain, but a lot less pain then trying to buy concert tickets these days[/QUOTE]

    This is a much better idea. much better than making another law (which I think would be unconstitutional anyway)
     
  14. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    Location:
    Eastern Shore
    I've always wondered about the distinction between scalpers (illegal) and brokers (legal). Why is being ripped off by the former a societal ill, but being ripped off by the latter perfectly OK?
    I don't get it.
     
  15. PROG U.K.

    PROG U.K. Audiophile-Anglophile

    Location:
    New England
    I agree, it's WRONG!
     
  16. dolstein

    dolstein Senior Member

    Location:
    Arlingon, VA
    Ok, I have a few basic problems with your post. First, you fail to recognize that one of the central tenets of the free enterprise system is freedom of contract. An artist should have the right to sell tickets to their concerts on such terms as they deem appropriate, and that includes imposing restrictions on resale. If you don't like these restrictions, you don't have to buy the tickets -- nobody's holding a gun to your head. Second, it has been established that scalpers *do* have an unfair advantage. They have software that provides them with far greater access to tickets than the regular public.
     
  17. dolstein

    dolstein Senior Member

    Location:
    Arlingon, VA
     
  18. bigmikerocks

    bigmikerocks Forum Resident

    i think that would stop most of this hassle. or make all ticketing paperless, where you have to pick up the tickets after you enter the venue somehow. that would be a pain, but a lot less pain then trying to buy concert tickets these days[/QUOTE]

    This is a much better idea. much better than making another law (which I think would be unconstitutional anyway)[/QUOTE]


    i don't think the government should be able to tell you how much money you can make on the sale of goods, but i don't consider an event ticket to be a normal sale item, not normal 'goods'
     
  19. telliott

    telliott Senior Member

    Maybe I'm missing something but what's the role of TicketsNow? Why do they exist in the first place except to be the official scalper for Ticketmaster?

    I think the whole "bait and switch" thing should be illegal. If you want to pay $1000 to see BRUUUCE! that's your own choice. I agree that all charges need to be disclosed. Why do tickets have a "face value" when there is a mandatory (large) service fee, if it's not an attempt to hide the service fee.

    Tim
     
  20. bigmikerocks

    bigmikerocks Forum Resident

    as far as i can see that's all ticketsnow is

    service fees are peanuts compared to mark-ups by brokers
     
  21. dolstein

    dolstein Senior Member

    Location:
    Arlingon, VA
    The way I see it is that the government, by regulating scalping, is making it possible for the artist to decide how much their tickets should sell for in the market. Why shouldn't artists like Springsteen be able to decide that keeping ticket prices affordable is more important than maximizing their own profit?
     
  22. bigmikerocks

    bigmikerocks Forum Resident

    exactly!!!

    if bruce's face value is set at $100, and bruce doesn't want anyone to pay more than that to see him, why would the government halting ticket re-sale or putting a limit on the re-sell amount be facist or communist or whatever else?
     
  23. hangwire13

    hangwire13 Forum Resident

    Location:
    pittsburgh
    Um, then why is scalping LEGAL in a lot of places? I know here in PA, its legal as long as its not on the day of the event a certain distance from the venue (not sure how far, 100 yds maybe?)

    As for scalpers having software that gives them an unfair advantage, I think thats mailnly the major ticket brokers who have that, and having some kind of one person, one ticket rule would fix that (and what of this mysterious "scalper software" anway? Are you trying to say that NO ONE but scalpers can get this software to use?). BTW, if I would be lucky enough to get one ticket to a show, I should be able to sell it for whatever the market will bear, if I so choose.

    What???? (im actually gonna try to respond to this). Um, an artist can charge whatever they want--and God knows they do--Im ashamed to say Ive paid 3 figures (face value at that) to see a few acts. How does that have any bearing on what scalpers charge? Obviously some acts saw what prices scalpers were getting for tickets and thought "hell, I may as well charge that much myself then..more profit for me!" Nothing wrong with that--basic supply and demand. If anyone is to blame its the psychotic fans (yes, sometimes including myself--years ago I paid $30 for an REM ticket priced at $15 for an orchestra pit seat, the one and only time Ive used a scalper) who are willing to pay outlandish prices a rock n roll show in the first place.
     
  24. bigmikerocks

    bigmikerocks Forum Resident

    i think some people are okay with the scalpers doing business like they do, and there are a lot of us that aren't too.

    i think it's horrible. i think the supply and demand argument is bogus too.

    'crazy' fans wouldn't be paying those obscene prices to brokers if the brokers weren't allowed to re-sell the tickets at crazy prices

    when i saw prince about 10 years ago, you didn't get your ticket until you were already in the venue. all will-call inside the venue

    brokers didn't make any money off of that one!!!
     
  25. hangwire13

    hangwire13 Forum Resident

    Location:
    pittsburgh
    I saw that Prince tour myself and while they didnt do the will-call inside thing, there was extra security EVERYWHERE outside to prevent scalping. No problem with that at all.

    As for the crazy fans--theyve been around MUCH longer than ticket brokers. Id even venture to say that the very IDEA of being a ticket broker came from someone somewhere seeing how much people were willing to pay for event tickets and thought "hey, Im gonna get in on that in an organized way"
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine