If I like The Yellow Shark, LSO I & II, and the Perfect Stranger by Frank Zappa ...

Can you recommend me *other* strange/modern/dissonant classical music I might like?

 

Have you heard Edgard Varèse yet? (Frank Zappa's idol-composer) He is a big influence esp. in the last movement of MO 'N HERB'S VACATION (LSO).

 

Well, ground zero for you should be Edgard Vares, one of the composers Zappa himself admired the most. Try Riccardo Chailly's version of "The Complete Works" (on 2 CDs) with the Royal Concergebow Orchestra and the Asko Ensemble on London Records. It should float your boat quite nicely.

L.

 

Stravinsky
Webern
Elliott Carter

 

Another note on Varèse: The pieces that sound closest to Zappa's work are "Hyperprism," "Octandre," "Intergrale," "Ionization," and the two electroacoustic pieces, "Poème électronique" and "Désarts." All of these are on disk two of the Chailly set (except "Poème électronique," which is on disk 1). There are differences, of course, and Zappa's sound-world is more than a bit wider than the one Varèse worked in, but Zappa's would have been unimaginable without Varèse's inspiration. That stuff certainly didn't come out of nowhere (it just went in a few new directions).

L.

 

No, you've spent far too much money lately!

To re-cap some of the suggestions:

Varese - the Chailly/Decca 2 CD is excellent as are the two Boulez discs on Sony Classical.

Stravinsky - obvious choices would be Petrouchka and Le Sacre du Printemps (The Rite of Spring). As for whose version, you could consider Chailly (Decca), Boulez (Sony and DG) or could go with the man himself, Stravinsky (Sony). However, be warned that there is also a 22 CD The Recorded Legacy box on Sony if you really get into Stravinsky conducting his own music!

Some additions:

Conlon Nancarrow - the general recommendation is his Studies For Player Piano 5 CD set on Wergo. If that seems like too much to gamble on you could try Studies For Player Piano played by Ensemble Modern on RCA Red Seal.

Charles Ives - possibly starting with Holidays Symphony? The experts on Ives are Michael Tilson Thomas (on Sony Classical and RCA) and Leonard Bernstein (Sony Classical).

 

I seem to recall that kevin5brown had enjoyed 200 MOTELS also. What are the big influences of the orchestra and chamber pieces in there? I know about Anton Webern and Arnold Schoenberg's, whom are certainly behind those 12-tone soprano (and bass) lieds with choir. I have read that Alban Berg's opera Wozzeck (sp.?) is supposed to be behind the introductory piece ("Semi-fraudulent..."), but I have never heard Wozzeck myself.

Anything else worth mentioning?

All along, the large percussion section (among which Ruth Underwood on a drum kit) is fun to listen to, as it is very much Varesian!

 

Tod Dockstader
Iannis Xenakis
Giacinto Scelsi
Christian Wolff
Gyorgy Ligeti
Anton Webern

 

Certainly something like Schoenberg's Pierrot Lunaire with its Sprechgesang/Sprechstimme style comes to mind -- which likely was still an influence for things like The Dangerous Kitchen and The Jazz Discharge Party Hats.

I listened to the 2001 soundtrack (Ligeti), Coptic Light by Morton Feldman and the Ensemble Modern's Nancarrow disc this morning. All of it is fairly dissonant, but only the Nancarrow is similar to Zappa. This can make recommendations difficult, especially when composers get lumped together. Boulez, Berio, Cage, Penderecki, etc. usually also get mentioned. There is Zappa's friend, Nicolas Slonimsky, too though I have not heard anything by him (he premiered works by Varese and Ives). Even some unlikely candidates have written dissonant serial music like Arvo Part (his early works) and Jerry Goldsmith (Christus Apollo). So, this is a big field to plough (plow for you Americans )!

There are some major classical music enthusiasts on the Forum, hopefully one will join the thread to point out the common elements -- I only know what I like and dislike.

 

John Zorn
Mike Patton

 

Zorn covers a very wide spectrum, what do you have in mind?

 

And of course, Everything Is Healing Nicely by Frank himself taken from the rehearsals with the Ensemble Modern for The Yellow Shark.

 

On the way. Yup, I like 200 Motels a lot too. (Lumpy Gravy and Uncle Meat too.)

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Excuse me while I take a break to go spend some more money ...

 

Kevin,

Have you considered this: http://www.amazon.com/Ensemble-Mode...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1226108989&sr=1-1 ?

 

Run, don't walk, and find...



Hans Werner Henze: Requiem

Despite the work being called a "Requiem" -- it is 100% instrumental (NO vocals, neither soloists nor chorus). Note, it is performed by the very same Ensemble Modern as The Yellow Shark.

I absolutely and strongly recommend this, money back guarantee.

 

Yellow Shark is a great album! Not really dissonant, as I recall. It's a pretty accessible record, and how can you not like the Ensemble's version of G-spot Tornado? Does anyone have better song names than Frank?

Others have mentioned a lot of good 20th century music that will provide some challenging listening. How about some that's a little easier on the ears, but just as strongly rhythmic as Frank's work often was? For that I'd recommend Stravinsky's Octet, Symphony in C and Symphony in 3 Movements, John Adams' Chamber Symphony or a selection of the color music by Michael Torke.

Happy listening!

 

All good stuff. Yes, it's been in the back of my mind to look for other releases by the Ensemble Modern.

 

Some tracks are accessible, while others such as "Times Beach" and "None Of The Above" are quite dissonant.

 

This is slightly different, but in my searching (and purchasing ) at Amazon, this popped up too:

Ensemble Ambrosius: The Zappa Album

??

 

There's a reissue LP out there of Edgar called the Edgar Varese' Album, on Atlantic/Finnadar Records with Frank's comments covering the back cover. Also has the 1st recording, Interpolation for (from) De'serts.

It's cut by Piros. I found it for $10 out in CT about 4 mo. ago. SR 9018, (C) 1977. It's worth a listen for the hardcore avant garde' listener.

 

One of a number of ensembles that have covered Zappa's music (Omnibus Wind Ensemble, Meridian Arts Ensemble, Ed Palermo Big Band, Harmonia, etc.). They are a 7-piece that use all baroque instruments (oboe, glockenspiel, violin, organ, melodica, harpsichord, dulcimer, lute, mandolin, bassoon, cello and piccolo). Quite faithful renditions of the pieces, so the interest factor comes from hearing the different instrumentation. I can't imagine you not liking it.

 

The exact title is "The Varese Record". But I hadn't noticed before that it was cut by GP! It does sound good. I have bought my copy new in '79.

That Zappa back cover text (which refers to the original EMS version of this album) is actually an article that first appeared in Stereo Review (1971), called "Edgar Varese, idol of my youth". Among the funniest, most endearing liner notes I have ever read, and a very warm homage!

 

BE: I found one of Boulez on Sony: http://www.amazon.com/Varese-Ameriq...-Integrales/dp/B000009IME/ref=pd_bxgy_m_img_b

But then there's this on DG? http://www.amazon.com/Boulez-Conducts-Varèse/dp/B00005KBJS/ref=pd_sim_m_3

Are these the ones you mean?


Oops, found something else that potentially looks good too: Olivier Messiaen: Quartet for the End of Time http://www.amazon.com/Olivier-Messiaen-Quartet-End-Time/dp/B000003ERU/ref=pd_sim_m_2 14 5 star reviews, 1 3 star. Rare to see something so highly rated. ??

So I guess in the end, I'm generically looking for good classical music (to get introduced to the genre) as well as stuff like what Zappa has done.

 

Kevin,

I don't know that particular recording of the Messiaen, but it's a wonderful piece of music, and those are great players. Scoop it up, my friend!

L.

 

Yes and no!

The DG is a more recent recording, and I don't recall the reviews being very good, which is why I don't have it. Even the Amazon page says this:

Pierre Boulez's Sony recordings of Varèse's music long ruled the roost until Riccardo Chailly's complete set with the Concertgebouw for Decca. This Chicago remake, for all its precise orchestral playing, doesn't challenge either of them.

The other Sony Classical disc is this one: http://www.amazon.com/Elliott-Carter-Orchestras-Ecuatorial-Hyperprism/dp/B000002C05/ref=pd_sim_m_4

I don't know the Messiaen disc you linked to, so can't offer an opinion. I don't have very much by him (there's only so much one can fit in!), so someone else will have to advise you here. Perhaps his most well known work is the Turangalila Symphony. Among the conductors who champion him are Myung-Whun Chung and Kent Nagano (name sound familiar? ).

As for good classical music? How long is a piece of string? I'm listening to some Prokofiev right now, so let me think for a while. It will be interesting to see what others suggest.