Wilco fans-What are your thought's on Jay Bennett?

I am not a Wilco fanatic but I do like some of their stuff. Love "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" actually.

I saw "I am Trying to Break Your Heart" the other night on cable and I must say it was quite a good film.
Being not a huge fan I of course only knew of Jeff Tweedy. I had never heard of Jay Bennett.

I am just wondering what true Wilco fans think of Jay. He obviously seems talented and to have had a lot of input in their music (probably too much as it turned out).

Are fans upset he "left?" Did Wilco suffer or become better from this split? Was Jay always an issue from day one or did he just get more of an ego as time passed? He did seem difficult to deal with.

Just curious-any thought's/ opinions on Jay Bennett/Jeff Tweedy are welcome.

 

I thnik the best is better off without him and his tensions... Jeff is the genius... and he has done great since then, creatively...

cheers,

mrbill

 

I'm a huge Wilco fan, and I really don't think the band has suffered without him. A Ghost is Born and Sky Blue Sky are IMO every bit as good as Yankee Hotel Foxtrot and Summerteeth.

 

I'm one of those who think "Being There" is the peak for Wilco. A truly great roots-rock/alt-country band. They're only an "okay" pop band to my ears, so I haven't heard much I've liked on the recent stuff. One of the few concerts I've ever left early was the "Summerteeth" tour.

Oddly I really like Jay's solo stuff. I'm not a fan of what he did with Wilco tho'.

I think they're better apart.

 

I've never heard any of his solo stuff. What's it like?

 

Bennett is a very talented guy. It's too bad his ego, and Tweedy's got in the way. I personally think the band hasn't been the same since he left. Although I have seen Wilco twice without him, and they are still outstanding. The last two albums were great, maybe not up to par with YHF. This could be simply because YHF was Tweedy's creative peak. Even with Bennett, the last two albums may not have been as good.

 

His myspace page is a good place to start.

http://www.myspace.com/jaybennett

How to describe? Kinda classic rock/classic pop/quirkyness. Todd Rungren or Pete Droge maybe as a reference?

To me it's what Wilco has been trying to do, but it works to my ears a lot better.

 

My reason for starting the thread was I thought Wilco was pretty much 100% Jeff Tweedy. It seems like the first 10 minutes of the film though is this guy (Jay) running around the studio like a mad scientist playing different instruments and doing all these small wacky/sometimes creative things to the music.

It was uncomfortable watching him and Jeff interact.

 

Apparently more uncomfortable for them.

 

when Wilco came to town, I had a chance to talk with John Stirratt (The Bass player) for about half an hour, and I asked about that whole episode where Jay was asked to leave. I wondered if it was edited unfairly for anyone, and he told me that apparently it was much worse than they showed, and that Jay was much too big an ego that interfered with the band's ability to function more and more. I guess he was also a bit too much of an elitist musically, and felt because he was the best player, he should be leading more.

Yes, that's only one side of the story, but it's more than no sides, I guess.

Personally, I liked what he added to Wilco, and YHF is my favorite album which they haven't topped yet (IMHO because of his influence), but I never had to work with him. From what I saw, he was obviously benefitting from the band musically more than he probably realized, and now he's solo and not well known.

 

My thoughts on Jay Bennett are largely sympathetic. He's a talented guy, and the closest thing to an equal that Tweedy has had since forming Wilco.

In the movie, Bennett quotes Tweedy as having said, "Every circle needs a center," as a reason for his firing. Bennett doesn't come across great in the movie, but I think the fact that he wanted to be something more than a sideman for Tweedy was his undoing. Like many great bands, Wilco is clearly not a democracy, as evidenced by the revolving door of players Tweedy has worked with in order to capture his vision.

The music has not suffered in Bennett's absence in my opinion, but as good as the supporting players are in Wilco, I tend to think as Wilco, post-Summer Teeth, as "Jeff Tweedy and his Band" rather than a group that really collaborates on ideas. I think the situation regarding Bennett is reflective of this.

 

I still think they are a fine band, but they were better with Jay Bennett IMO. I seem to prefer Tweedy when he has an "equal", like Jay Farrar in Uncle Tupelo. Maybe he just has a problem with Jay's after a while.

 

Musically, I think the band has paid a price for Bennett's absence, though I can certainly understand why firing him was a good move internally.

But Bennett had a real skill for coming up with guitar and keyboard parts that organically fit the songs. Compare the guitar and keyboard parts on Summerteeth and Yankee Hotel Foxtrot to those on Ghost and Sky Blue Sky: Nels Cline plays doodly jazz fusion solos that, to me, draw attention to themselves rather than to the songs. And the keyboard parts have become just standard "keyboards somewhere in the background."

And as much as I admire Tweedy's songwriting, I also think he's probably just as much a pill to work with than Bennett is. Having seen the Jones film and Tweedy solo live shows, it seems to me that Tweedy's a bit of a prima donna himself. I suspect part of the problem with Bennett was that he came to see himself as co-leader of the band--deservedly so, I'd say, on the basis of how much he had to do with how Summerteeth and YHF came out. But it's Tweedy's band--his revolving group of bit players--and so Bennett had to go.

It's a testament to Tweedy's ego that Wilco has never recorded (well, hasn't released) a song written by another member of the band. Even George Harrison had a better deal than poor John Stirrat has.

 

Is he a good songwriter? Why should they record his songs? To be fair?

 

To me there are big differences between the "with Jay" and "without Jay" eras, and I enjoy both.
I will say thought that they were more of fun live show with Jay IMO (until recently anyway). They also seemed to take pleasure in wearing their influences on their sleeves while Jay was with them. If you ever get a chance to listen to the demos for YHF you can hear them easily jumping from all sorts of styles. I always assumed this was because of Jay as they don't seem to do that now.
However they do seem much more focused now and their last two records may be my favorites. They also seem to be enjoying themselves at their live shows now. I didn't get that feeling on the YHF or Ghost... tours, and that may have had to do more with Tweedy's migraine and addiction issues than anything else.
I think Bennett is extremely gifted. I enjoyed his first band Titanic Love Affair, however his solo records are mediocre at best IMO. A lot of great ideas in both his playing and production, but the songs are not there….
And I’ve been in bands with guys like that, and that type of personality wears thin after awhile.

 

There was one, "It's Just That Simple" on A.M. Stiratt has his own project, Autumn Defense, with Pat Sansone, who also joined Wilco in 2004.

 

John Stirrat and Pat Sansone put out records as Autumn Defense. It's pretty good folksy-pop stuff.

I think Stiratt co-writes a few of the Wilco songs doesn't he? And he had his own song on the first Wilco record. I don't know off the top of my head if wrote it though

 

D'oh!
pbuzby beat me to the punch...

 

It's Jeff Tweedy's band. Why should he record another member's songs just because they write? Stirratt can start his own band (and evidently has.)

Rock fans (and band members) are too enamoured with the idea that bands have to be democracies. Orchestras have conductors; jazz bands have leaders; choirs have directors. Rock is the only kind of music where people accuse band leaders of being egomaniacs or control freaks. The petty little jealousies sidemen have of songwriters has undermined a lot of great groups.

 

To me Jay Bennett simply is not as compelling a voice (songwriting-wise or vocally) as Jeff Tweedy is. Jay’s solo album that I have is very bland. It's too bad (if it's true) that Jay was not willing to be a side-man because that's where he excelled. He has to realize that while he has superior ability to Jeff, he is no where close to him artistically.
I think Summerteeth is their best album---I’m sure largely due to Jay’s sonic contributions. I do like Sky Blue Sky better than the two studio albums which preceded it (those albums were not weak but were somewhat overrated). I saw them live in 06 and it was amazing----far better than 2002 but not quite as special as 1999.

 

Miles Davis had no problem letting his sidemen dominate the songwriting at various times. How many songs has Art Blakey written vs the various Messengers? Did Dave Brubeck write "Take Five"?

I understand the point you are making here, but jazz bands aren't a good example, unless you are only talking about leading the group vs composing the material.

 

My point is, there is somebody in charge who decides, "we are doing this song," "we are playing at this tempo" etc. It doesn't mean they allow no input from other people, but they have the final say. Miles Davis may have welcomed compositions from other band members, or he may not have, but it would have been up to him and no one would have called him a control freak if he'd chosen to play only his own compositions with his group.

 

Jay was certainly important and contributed much during his time with Wilco but it seems that he found himself in a creative power struggle with Jeff who won by default. The movie doesn't exactly portray Jay in the best light which is unfortunate as it documents such an important time for the band. There are two sides to every story and I wonder sometimes if the real story of what went down between Jeff and Jay is there.

That movie blew my mind when I first saw it. The director and crew unknowingly happened to pick the perfect time in the life of Wilco to do a documentary.

I like all of Wilco's phases but I really think that they have been operating at a peak level with the current lineup. I've listened to a ton of shows from the last few years and have yet to hear an "off night."

 

Exactly my point. Before we go condemning Bennett for his outsized ego, let's not forget that Tweedy's ego is just as large, if not larger.

According to Greg Kot's book on Wilco (Learning How to Die), Tony Margherita and Tweedy got angry at Stirratt for releasing a side project record (Courtesy Move) because it "undermined" Wilco. Tweedy himself, of course, had already recorded with Golden Smog. That's the kind of Tweedy-centrism I had in mind when I expressed sympathy for Stirratt. And for the record, Stirratt is not as good a songwriter as Tweedy is. Very few people are.

Well, I certainly never suggested Wilco should be a democracy. My point is that Tweedy seems to treat the rest of the band as glorified session players. That's too bad, and I'd argue that it's led to the last two records being less interesting (IMO). As gifted a songwriter as Tweedy is, giving Bennett a greater hand in writing and production helped him make even better records. I don't think that's true of, say, Nels Cline. Wilco doesn't need to be a democratic collective, but I think it does benefit from having a wider "inner circle" than Tweedy alone. Summerteeth and YHF are evidence of that.

 

Actually, Miles is almost the opposite of a control freak, despite his reputation. He used to give almost no directions to his band, and trusted that his cream of the crop musicians could figure out what he wanted them to play on their own terms. But sure, he decided what they were going to play or not.

Of course, your average rock musician isn't in the same league as those guys, so the successful groups usually do have a definite leader. Wilco reached their arguably greatest creative peak perhaps due to the tension between Bennett and Tweedy. It often works that way. Look at the White Album.

I think guys like Tweedy feel more comfortable being in a "band" as opposed to just being billed as "Jeff Tweedy." It probably makes the other members feel more a part of it as well even if their input is limited.