Why do people spend good money collecting Capitol Beatles' albums?

here endeth the lesson... Amen.

Now, I'll go hang my clothes on a lower peg.

 

So, Steve, have you, or anybody else, actually ever heard what GM delivered to Capitol as the "USA only mixes" as documented in Lewisohn, BEFORE Bill Miller & Dave Dexter applied their "magic" to the tapes. In other words, has ANYONE ever heard the US mixes properly?

 

I think it is more of a nostalga thing. You know how your brain starts to hear the "next song" when the previous song ends, and you hang for that moment waiting for it to start.

Remember back then, people would actually sit down and listen to a complete record, stare at the jacket, and would memorized the whole album.

When the British LPs came out, even though they were "right", and even though they sounded "better", they were in the wrong order (to us).

Well, time has come to reprogram our heads, but just as we remember TV shows of the past being much better than they really were, that is how these US LPs are thought of.

It's more of a "history" thing than a "music" thing. After all, we could all create our own CDRs of the US albums ourselves if we wanted to.

 

I've heard a few folks argue that, for example, the reverb added to the "I Feel Fine/She's A Woman" single did make it a more exciting record. "She's A Woman" especially seems a bit dry.

That said, it was hearing the un-messed with stereo version of "I Feel Fine" on A Collection Of Beatles Oldies that pretty much started me collecting, and certainly converted me over to the thinking that the British versions were the ones to get.

 

Steve, did the Canadian Capitol versions use the same redubbed mixes as the U.S. counterparts?

 

I'm confused here. Do you mean the US tapes used EXACTLY the same mixes & sounded exactly like the UK tapes?!? If so, how were they "special"? What about things like Matchbox, where the solo greatly differs as to highlighted instruments? Was the difference just due to re-sequencing of the US LPs. What about the re-channeling of things like Ticket To Ride, which is in stereo on the UK Help! LP, but re-channelled on the US Help!? Who was responsible for doing that? Did the tape GM submitted for Help! have it in mono or stereo, or already pre-re-channelled?
I'd love for SOMEONE to finally sort this all out, because the Lewisohn book raises more questions than it answers.

 

For me it's mostly a nostalgia thing. Those are the versions I grew up with and sometimes I still like to hear the songs that way. I do still prefer the sequence on the Cap. Rubber Soul (and the false start).

 

Steve,

In many ways this reminds me of the classic Mono v. Stereo question on Oldies. My first Beatles LP was "Beatles '65" when I was 14. The first import album that I ever saw was in 1971 or so. I never heard the "dry" British mixes until the Beatles first CD's were released. The Capitol versions were the versions that I heard first on both 45's and LP's. I still have a certain "child-like" nostalgia for the Capitol versions even though I now prefer the correct versions. I attribute this to the sonic imprint of hearing the magic of The Beatles for the first time via the Capitol versions. That first-time magic stays with us in spite of it's sonic shortcomings. To this day, both "I Feel Fine" and "She's A Woman" sound somewhat strange to me without all that murky echo....like something is missing.

Of course, I now prefer to listen to The Beatles correctly. I have been enlightened!

Bob

 

I agree that most Capitol albums sound like garbage, compared to the British versions (or even the CDs for that matter). I tried listening to some earlier this year and found them almost unlistenable. Exceptions are the first three Canadian albums, which don't sound too bad to me.

I bought the Capitol albums really cheap in the early 1990s mainly for the variations, such as the single tracked "And I Love Her" and the false start to "I'm Looking Through You" and also because they were no longer in print. However, I don't think I'd want to pay today's asking prices.

 

No, no ,no - you should all carry on collecting the US Capitol versions - you don't really want the UK versions - no not at all

I will of course do my own little bit to support our economy by buying domestic copies and feel that I should help Japan a little as well - but don't let that stop all of you over in the US from buying those nice US Capitol versions - I mean look at what they sell for on eBay they must be good

All the best - Andrew

 

Definetly a nostalgia thing for me too. The only reason I'm picking these up now is that I already own all the British LPs (and I love them dearly). I'm also picking up Odeons when I can. In fact I just got my blue 2LP collection from Germany today!

 

I think you're missing my point here. I KNOW what Dexter did to the tapes (extra reverb up the wazoo, speeding up the tracks on Beatles 2nd Album, removing most of the bass, etc), but it's just that this sentence:

seems to contradict itself. If they sound just like the UK mixes, what is "special" about them?

 

I still love the reverb on "Roll Over Beethoven" and "Money" on The Beatles Second Album (those versions sound more like they're playing in a basement -- kind of an imagined Cavern Club ambiance), and have always found the correct versions too polite and antiseptic by comparison. Clearly a case of preferring what you grew up with, I guess.

 

I've always found Roll Over Beethoven to be the worst offender that didn't have a stereo vs. reprocessed issue (She's A Woman is the worst offender in that category). Back in the pre-CD days, it was always the track I used to show people the difference between the UK & US LPs. I always loved the dry WTB sound. Meet The Beatles may have had that "Cavern Club sound", but With The Beatles sounds like the're playing in my living room!

 

Ticket To Ride for an example was when Capitol already had a mono tape copy and felt it was unnessessary (apparently for many years) to request true stereo mixes from EMI England. So therefore, whala! Re-prossesed stereo (total crap.) Capitol did this with many other songs where true stereo could have been used such as I Want to Hold Your Hand, I Feel Fine, She's A Woman, Baby You're A Rich Man etc. etc.

In the case of song like Matchbox, where Capitol used a true stereo tape (be it one that was messed with) may have been an alternate mix or eq'd poorly. (haven't heard the Capitol version for a long time.)

It's too bad that back then EMI UK or George Martin didn't have more control over Capitol. Those American LP's must have infuriated him and The Beatles.

 

Coincidentally, this past weekend I was browsing in a local CD Warehouse shop that has a few crates of old vinyl. Inside was a batch of Capitol Beatles albums from the years that I was buying them, in the late 70's. That means The Beatles' Second Album on the orange Capitol label, or Beatles '65 and the US sequence of Rubber Soul on Apple. I have to admit to a twinge of nostalgia, longing for my old copies, the "good old days" of vinyl and all four Beatles still alive, and probably a bit of regret at getting older. Perhaps that's what keeps people collecting these old copies, mucked up sound or not.

Fortunately, I snapped out of it, and left 'em in the crate.

 

The reason I used TTR in my example was because, whereas all the tracks you mention are in fake stereo on the US LPs because they were NOT ON any UK LP. However, TTR IS on the UK HELP! & yet we STILL got a fake stereo version on the US Help! Not to mention that the UK version is quite a bit longer than any US release.

 

Basically agree for virtually all of the Beatles catalogue, but for certain songs I prefer them to not sound like they're in my living room. I like "Money" to sound like a mugging, not a charitable solicitation.

 

While I generally agree the UK versions are superior to the US mixes, nostalgia aside, the fact remains that, however excessive, the verb added to the "I Feel Fine"/"She's A Woman" 45 DID make a real difference, gave it an extra kick, if you will. But that was an exception: most of the Dexter/Miller tinkering was just unnecessary, which tracking down the imports made obvious.

Having said that, I prefer the special 'warmth' of the US RUBBER SOUL--track listing and all--over the UK version, even if that album has more variety. But, it's the only one--the rest are, indeed, for nostalgia only, although the soundtracks to AHDN and HELP!, as released here, are more honest and representative as movie soundtracks, while the UK versions are half a soundtrack. And, yes, the cover graphics for the UA AHDN is far superior to the british version--by a mile.

ED

 

As one who grew up just listening to the mono singles on AM radio, I only became familiar with the albums via the British CDs. I have a few British stereo and mono LPs pressed in the 80s. I do have one Capitol LP and I am not used to the song order, and it is missing a couple of them.

I do, however, like the reverb on the US I "Feel Fine" 45.

Steve, doesn't the sound of the Capitol 45s after the Sgt Pepper days more closely reflect the British singles, even though they are still copies?

 

I must agree with Mr. Hoffman concerning the sound quality (or lack of it) in regard to the Capital pressings. However, in response to his wondering why people collect them, it's simply because of the value original capital pressings, especially mono, are worth in excellent shape. Hell, I've seen a sealed mono Sgt. Pepper go for over $2000 on ebay----it sure as hell ain't for the sound quality, but for the rarity of the item. I don't think the guy is going to open it and listen to it, but will keep it for its collector status. The same with the entire original Capital catalog. Buy the British, German or mofi for sound quality, but don't ever pass up or sell near mint original capital pressings. They are valuable.