KISS - (Music From) The Elder... thoughts?

Firstly, please don't use this as a thread to bash KISS - I would like to try to keep it on topic as much as possible.

I've seen in other threads some love for this album, and it's my favorite KISS album. I remember getting the album when I was eight; and until I got it I sat in school drawing pictures of it. It was... mysterious.

I specifically remember listening to it in my sister's old bedroom; the turntable was mounted on the wall higher than I could reach. I did have the "A World Without Heroes" single, so I was familiar with that song. I also remember the beginning of "Mr. Blackwell" scaring the hell out of me. I remember thinking that the whole thing was just... weird, but I had been listening to The Wall for a year so it kind of felt comfortable with the orchestration and such. I had no idea who Bob Ezrin was or what "producing" meant.

Good memories of seeing them on Solid Gold at that time also. Gene crying? What's going on?? And why did I find a copy at Sound Odyssey that had a lyric sheet when mine did not??? And what were with the monks on the Japanese vinyl????

(I found out answers to these, they're just here for effect. Also, a very nice record dealer gave me that paper inner sleeve for free many years later when I was standing in his store trying to memorize the lyrics that I could never quite make out.)

So then, did/does this album stand up for you guys? What do you/don't you like about it? Any favorite songs all these years later?

 

Great record! Totally overblown, pompous and pretentious but strangely it all works here. Should have been a double! It was the first KISS LP that I really liked as a kid and is still their best one. Awesome melodies, singing and stunning guitar sound. Much, much better than Destroyer and the last time KISS tried doing' something really creative.

 

My Favorite Kiss album. A guilty pleasure that surprisingly many Kiss fans enjoy.

Old thread I started here:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=87879

 

Great album, good conversation starter.

My favorites have always been "The Oath", "Only You" and most especially "Under the Rose". Totally love the guitar solo on that one.

It's very cool to have the original/Japanese version on CD, though I still think I prefer the regular American issue better. It may not make sense story-wise, but "The Oath" is so much of a better opener, and the other one just takes forever to get going.

Trouble is songs like "Mr. Blackwell" and "Odyssey" really bring this one down. But Side One (again, of the US version) always makes me feel like this is KISS' masterpiece. Too bad they lost track somewhere along the line.

I believe that if they had some stability in the band and avoided the tame soft rock songs, this wouldn't have been as bashed as it was. But I can't figure out how Paul and Gene didn't realize this was going to go over like a lead balloon once they heard the final master. If they were on all sorts of crazy drugs that would explain it, but...

 

Just checked it out - Paul's solo in "Heroes" is a great one; very tasteful!

I've always loved the short guitar solo after the bridge in "Odyssey" as well. I absolutely love that track... but I felt that it could have been made better if Paul sang it a little more naturally. I always wondered if he was emulating a vocal style that may have been on the Tony Powers demo. He's got an affect that I've never heard anywhere but in that song ("in that enchayented playce").

 

'Tis an album of fine performances.

 

I love the Elder as a whole, pretty much every song. I also like Just A Boy, except for Paul Stanley's overly high falsetto on the chorus.

HOWEVER, Paul's performance of The Oath on the old Fridays TV show wasn't too good. He couldn't hit certain notes.

 

Frnakly I don't think Paul ever sung better than on The Elder.

 

I haven't really heard the boots, but, for those who have, do you think this is where KISS was heading if Gene and Paul had stuck with Wicked Lester?

I like the album as a deversion from the KISS sound. They did a really nice "A World Without Heroes" on the MTV Unplugged album.

 

I never liked this one as a kid when it was first released. I was 14 at the time and had been a KISS fan since 1978 when I was hit by the ALIVE II bug. This just wasn't the same KISS I was used to, and at a time when I was listening to a lot of Ozzy Osbourne, Van Halen, Scorpions and Iron Maiden, ELDER just didn't cut the mustard for me.

I didn't re-visit the album until many, many years later when I discovered a co-worker of mine was a huge KISS fan the majority of his entire life as well. We were the same age and shared many of the same KISS stories. When the discussion of The Elder came up, I quickly dismissed it as a poor effort, and one I would never forgive KISS for releasing as it led to Ace's departure (misconceptions I read in Circus Magazine and the like... Ace's problems were much more deeply rooted than this album alone).

Anyway, my friend and I discussed KISS the better part of our entire workday and he convinced me to give Elder another try, so I did. Wow, it had been 10 years since I played the album and it sure sounded better to me at age 24 than it did 14. I guess my maturity level was now on par with the album's. I've been a fan of the album ever since and give it a spin every few months at least... and that was a LONG time ago!

I still like the Destoyer / Love Gun / Alive II era of KISS better, but recognize The Elder as a very accomplished piece of work from a band who was never really known for such things.

 

I guess like many others I was an Alive and Alive II fanatic, so I did not 'get' the album when it came out. I did buy it though, but rarely played it. A few years back I went to a Smashing Pumpkins show and the album was played in it's entirety before de band came on. *) I suddenly realised what I had been missing all these years. It's not the album that Kiss should have made back then, to put it mildly. But it's a great rock concept album. Since then I got the Japanese vinyl pressing with the awesome alternate front sleeve. A great sounding record that I play regularly.

*) many years later I interviewed B. Corgan and asked him albout this. He confirmed that the album was played a lot during that tour and that he loves The Elder.

 

I think it just sounded weak live because Paul was singing a falsetto part all by himself. On the album it's at least double tracked.

I was extremely pleased with the record. It was so different from everything going on at the time. I knew it would bomb. It was way too thoughtful and well done for the time.

 

I was extremely pleased to hear that. Even more extremely pleased when I was holding up the sign at the NY Kiss Convention and they played it. I didn't know it had really been an ongoing part of the set... but still...

 

Anyone remembers Cher's cover of The World without heroes? I think she still had a relationship with Gene back in 1981 so maybe this one brought back some nice memories to her (of the long, long tongue...)

 

I heard it once, on a jukebox in a diner. I thought it was strange, even given their history, that anyone would cover anything from The Elder!

 

Love the album. Unfortunately, the failure of the record really scared the band and from this moment on they recorded their songs with simple arrangements. It did get better with Revenge however.

 

My favourite Kiss album, my favourites being 'Odyssey', 'The Oath', 'Under the Rose' and 'I' (one of the best Kiss stompers of all), I liked all the fantasy stuff when I was a teenager too, it went well next to my Rainbow, Zeppelin and Genesis collection!

 

from cd universe:

Yikes! I had no idea Lou Reed was involved . . I suppose the Ezrin connection?

 

If I remember correctly, "Heroes" was originally a Paul love song. Reed may have only come up with the title and little, if any, of the finished lyric. Perhaps the same for the others...?

 

It was Kiss' very last attempt at anything of artistic significance. After that, it was all dumb headed attempts at shifting product.

Too bad Kiss now disowns the album as an artistic mistake.

I don't think it's entirely solid, but it definitely has some good moments, and when it came out I remember being impressed that Kiss were maturing.

 

I really like it. It was my first CD ever (back in August 1990). I could do without "Mr. Blackwell" though. The band dared to experiment and I thank them for that.

 

A very under-rated album. It's not your typical KISS record, but it's one of my favorites.

 

A fact that I just remembered - when the Kiss discography was released on CD in 1987, The Elder was NOT released with it (and neither were the solo albums). It would not see release until a few years later. THAT is how much the band disowned this album.

 

Well, The world without heroes is such a beautiful (and relatively obscure) song that it's ideal for cover versions IMHO.

 

That song (the KISS version) would have worked perfectly on the Heavy Metal soundtrack. I wonder why KISS wasn't asked to contribute something (or maybe they were, and Gene wanted too much $).