Billy Joel's The Stranger: different CD masterings

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by ricks, Apr 21, 2008.

  1. ricks

    ricks Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    127.0.0.1:443
    35DP 2 Info:



    Christian, many thanks.

    Interesting my Japan for US matrix (very crude dot matrix type) CK-34987 1B2 75 , is a different mastering which contains an additional track. The "extra" track is 10 Billy Joel - The Stranger (Reprise) it is not mentioned on the artwork or the front of the CD, my guess is it's just an additional index point added to track 9, Everybody Has A Dream rather than a true extra track.



    Here is my EAC info for comparison:

    TOC of the extracted CD

    Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    1 | 0:00.00 | 3:30.45 | 0 | 15794
    2 | 3:30.45 | 5:10.50 | 15795 | 39094
    3 | 8:41.20 | 4:50.57 | 39095 | 60901
    4 | 13:32.02 | 7:37.43 | 60902 | 95219
    5 | 21:09.45 | 3:34.25 | 95220 | 111294
    6 | 24:43.70 | 3:55.55 | 111295 | 128974
    7 | 28:39.50 | 3:21.50 | 128975 | 144099
    8 | 32:01.25 | 3:57.00 | 144100 | 161874
    9 | 35:58.25 | 4:34.60 | 161875 | 182484
    10 | 40:33.10 | 1:59.00 | 182485 | 191409


    01 Billy Joel - Movin' Out (Anthony's Song) 80.2 %
    02 Billy Joel - The Stranger 84.1 %
    03 Billy Joel - Just The Way You Are 71.2 %
    04 Billy Joel - Scenes From An Italian Restaurant 89.6 %
    05 Billy Joel - Vienna 84.0 %
    06 Billy Joel - Only The Good Die Young 81.3 %
    07 Billy Joel - She's Always A Woman 36.8 %
    08 Billy Joel - Get It Right The First Time 76.0 %
    09 Billy Joel - Everybody Has A Dream 72.3 %
    10 Billy Joel - The Stranger (Reprise) 23.5 %

    Anyone have an EAC log for the US for US?

    Rick

    P.S. Christian if you are still following, would you be able to post your TOC info from the EAC log...Thanks
     
  2. tomcat

    tomcat Senior Member

    Location:
    Switzerland
    I have the Made in U.S.A. CDCBS 82311 (CK 34987) (DIDP 2) (Matrix: DIDP 50002), and it has exactly the same peaks as the Japan 35DP 2, only the CRC's are different.

    Cheers
    Thomas
     
    Sebastich likes this.
  3. tomcat

    tomcat Senior Member

    Location:
    Switzerland
    And by the way: this CD does not feature Pre-Emphasis.
     
  4. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    Rick, your disc is a Denon pressing, which I have not yet located. Perhaps CBS/Sony issued a "secret remaster" in the U.S. They did that with several titles back in the day. It would not surprise me if some later U.S. pressings had the same mastering as your disc. Now I wonder how your disc and the original mastering compare.
     
  5. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    That's an interesting one. U.S. DADC pressings for Europe show up once in awhile. I'll keep my eyes open for such a copy of The Stranger.
     
  6. ricks

    ricks Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    127.0.0.1:443
    Got this one at Record World back late in '87

    I'd like to know how they compare as well. Now I have to get a hold of the disc with the original/35DP mastering as this is the only one I've ever had.

    If someone has an early DADC (Made In USA by Digital Audio Disc Corp in plastic hub) US for US it would be great if you could post the EAC peaks. Thanks

    Rick
     
  7. tomcat

    tomcat Senior Member

    Location:
    Switzerland
    Mine does actually has the "Made In USA by Digital Audio Disc Corp" in the plastic hub. I'm still wondering why my CD shows the exact same peak levels as the Japan 35DP 2 but doesn't have Pre-Emphasis. I can hardly imagine those early Japan CDs not having it...
     
  8. ricks

    ricks Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    127.0.0.1:443
    tomcat, thanks.

    Wow, never would have figured the Japan for US was unique mastering. Since it appears the US for US' are the 35DP mastering it shouldn't be too hard for me to track one down.

    Rick
     
  9. ricks

    ricks Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    127.0.0.1:443
    Does your CD have 9 or 10 tracks?
     
  10. ricks

    ricks Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    127.0.0.1:443
    I've obtained a Stranger with the 35DP 2 mastering.
    What's interesting is the Japan for US (Denon Pressing?) that I have appears to be a totally unique mastering. My guess is all the 9 track versions have the 35DP 2 mastering while the unique one is 10 tracks. Also, I don't have the older Japan for US, since it has 35DP 2 in the matrix it's probably safe to say it also uses the 35DP 2 mastering.

    Now I have to a/b compare the 35DP to mastering to the unique Japan for US 10 track. I may also throw in the 2 Channel of the SACD for good measure.

    If any one has more info or EAC peak numbers (like the Japan for US w/35dp in matrix) please post here and I'll add them to the chart.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. tomcat

    tomcat Senior Member

    Location:
    Switzerland
    9; "The Stranger" (Reprise) is included in the 9th track. What I think is interesting is that even it's only the 2nd 35DP on the market (-2), it does not feature pre-emphasis, while "52nd Street" (-1) and "Wish You Were Here" (-4) do.
     
  12. ricks

    ricks Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    127.0.0.1:443
    I just aquired a Japan for US 35DP-2 matrix with repeating CSR Compact Disc in plastic hub, and was shocked! The EAC values do not match those of the Japan for Japan 35DP values that crispynz1 gave us. In fact they are totally unique.

    This just got a whole bunch Stranger, pun intended.

    Is it possible for someone else with a Japan for Japan 35DP to confirm the numbers in the chart. Not that I think they are wrong but if they are correct that means the matrix information may not be an accurate way of determining a mastering. Thanks.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. I have a Japan for U.S. that has the 35DP-2 81A3 matrix, and it matches up 100% to what you posted.

    I also have a Japan for Japan 32DP, and the peak levels are different from any of the numbers posted above.
     
  14. ricks

    ricks Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    127.0.0.1:443

    Scott, thanks.
    That confirms my 35DP-2 81A3 peak values. Now we need confirmation/verification of the Japan for Japan 35DP, if that's in error then we have an easy explanation if not then "throw out" the matrix's.....

    Rick

    PS Please post the 32DP values if possible and I'll add them to the chart.
     
  15. agentalbert

    agentalbert Senior Member

    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    I've got a Japan For Japan copy of The Stranger (CBS/Sony CSCS 6016) that doesn't match any of the numbers on the chart. Matrix has "DPA-367".

    88.0
    92.3
    78.0
    98.3
    92.1
    89.2
    40.4
    83.4
    79.2
     
  16. It looks like the CD you mention above, uses the same mastering as the 32DP version, that preceded it.
     
    Vinylbeast likes this.
  17. ricks

    ricks Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    127.0.0.1:443
    crispynz1 has confirmed to me his EAC values for the Japan for Japan 35DP.

    Does anyone have another one they can post values from? In case his was somehow different. Because if it's not, this means matrix's that contain 35DP in them are not an accurate way of determining if the CD had 35DP mastering.

    Rick
     
  18. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    I am continually amazed by how many times an album was secretly remastered in the early days. Particularly surprising is that the Japanese Denon pressing for the U.S. would have a unique mastering. I have a hard time believing that CBS/Sony broke out the original master tapes so many times over a short period. It would not surprise me if some of these discs, and possibly all of them, were made from copies (and different copies, at that).

    Now I wonder if all of my 35DP 2 (Japan-for-Japan) and CK 34987 Japan-for-U.S. CBS/Sony pressings are identical.
     
  19. button

    button Forum Resident

    I've only recently installed EAC, so I'm no expert at it, but I hope this helps.

    My disc is a Japan-for-Japan 35DP 2 with a gold tint and crude matrix (1A1):

    BTW, what's with the "Cannot be verified as accurate"? Did I not install EAC properly?

    Track 1

    Filename C:\Music\Billy Joel\The Stranger (Japanese Pressing)\01. Movin' Out (Anthony's Song).wav

    Peak level 62.2 %
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC DD1B8594
    Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 7) [5FAAFAFD], AccurateRip returned [32A91323]
    Copy OK

    Track 2

    Filename C:\Music\Billy Joel\The Stranger (Japanese Pressing)\02. The Stranger.wav

    Peak level 60.2 %
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC 73717757
    Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 7) [1528D9CE], AccurateRip returned [12BAFDED]
    Copy OK

    Track 3

    Filename C:\Music\Billy Joel\The Stranger (Japanese Pressing)\03. Just The Way You Are.wav

    Peak level 38.4 %
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC 8FFD7EEA
    Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 7) [4C64E860], AccurateRip returned [8E014BBB]
    Copy OK

    Track 4

    Filename C:\Music\Billy Joel\The Stranger (Japanese Pressing)\04. Scenes From An Italian Restaurant.wav

    Peak level 51.0 %
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC 0576A29A
    Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 7) [F641D485], AccurateRip returned [69FE9C95]
    Copy OK

    Track 5

    Filename C:\Music\Billy Joel\The Stranger (Japanese Pressing)\05. Vienna.wav

    Peak level 72.2 %
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC B347432D
    Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 7) [B4671FDF], AccurateRip returned [7494247A]
    Copy OK

    Track 6

    Filename C:\Music\Billy Joel\The Stranger (Japanese Pressing)\06. Only The Good Die Young.wav

    Peak level 62.7 %
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC AD7A1395
    Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 7) [A74E160A], AccurateRip returned [CC0BB614]
    Copy OK

    Track 7

    Filename C:\Music\Billy Joel\The Stranger (Japanese Pressing)\07. She's Always A Woman.wav

    Peak level 29.2 %
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC C77DE738
    Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 7) [10427A2A], AccurateRip returned [F05D5808]
    Copy OK

    Track 8

    Filename C:\Music\Billy Joel\The Stranger (Japanese Pressing)\08. Get It Right The First Time.wav

    Peak level 53.3 %
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Test CRC E70AD646
    Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 7) [3B8EBF15], AccurateRip returned [0A06BA8D]
    Copy OK

    Track 9

    Filename C:\Music\Billy Joel\The Stranger (Japanese Pressing)\09. Everybody Has A Dream.wav

    Peak level 45.5 %
    Track quality 99.9 %
    Test CRC A1C57835
    Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 7) [C697CC18], AccurateRip returned [8DF3F13D]
    Copy OK


    No tracks could be verified as accurate
    You may have a different pressing from the one(s) in the database

    No errors occurred

    End of status report
     
  20. ivan_wemple

    ivan_wemple Senior Member

    Assuming Christian's Japan-for-Japan 35DP 2 disc is not "gold tinted" (meaning, I think, that Christian's is a later pressing), it would seem that the 35DP2 mastering depends on whether the disc is gold or not.

    This opens up a huge can of worms!

    I have a 35DP2 that I'll rip tonight (I don't believe it's gold-tinted).

    Fun stuff.
     
  21. ricks

    ricks Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    127.0.0.1:443
    Thanks Ivan!
     
  22. ricks

    ricks Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    127.0.0.1:443
    Thanks for the #'s !

    It just means that the accurate rip database can not validate the rip due to incomplete data on their end. Happens a lot with Japan for Japan discs.

    Rick
     
  23. ricks

    ricks Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    127.0.0.1:443
    Wow. the mystery deepens....

    Updated chart.
     

    Attached Files:

  24. bru87tr

    bru87tr 80’s rule

    Location:
    MA
    US for US
    CAT#- CK 34987
    MATRIX#- 1B CK34987 12 B


    Track 1

    Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Bruman\Desktop\Track01.wav

    Peak level 80.2 %
    Test CRC FB823203
    Copy OK

    Track 2

    Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Bruman\Desktop\Track02.wav

    Peak level 84.1 %
    Test CRC 795ECD36
    Copy OK

    Track 3

    Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Bruman\Desktop\Track03.wav

    Peak level 71.2 %
    Test CRC 536FA1EA
    Copy OK

    Track 4

    Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Bruman\Desktop\Track04.wav

    Peak level 89.6 %
    Test CRC 7341FF88
    Copy OK

    Track 5

    Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Bruman\Desktop\Track05.wav

    Peak level 84.0 %
    Test CRC 38741167
    Copy OK

    Track 6

    Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Bruman\Desktop\Track06.wav

    Peak level 81.3 %
    Test CRC 9437C6C5
    Copy OK

    Track 7

    Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Bruman\Desktop\Track07.wav

    Peak level 36.8 %
    Test CRC 296BD026
    Copy OK

    Track 8

    Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Bruman\Desktop\Track08.wav

    Peak level 76.0 %
    Test CRC 8CA92C8A
    Copy OK

    Track 9

    Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Bruman\Desktop\Track09.wav

    Peak level 72.3 %
    Test CRC 94FA0630
    Copy OK

    No errors occurred

    End of status report
     
  25. ricks

    ricks Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    127.0.0.1:443
    bru87tr,

    Thanks for the EAC values. We pretty much have a match to my Japan for US, but your's is only 9 tracks while mine is 10.
    Weird stuff with this Album on CD. Makes me wonder if other Columbia/CBS's CD's have this many masterings?

    Does your disc have anything in the plastic hub?

    Rick
     

    Attached Files:

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