Best Sounding Goblin on CD

All,

I tried searching the archives, but didn't come up with much. What, in your opinion, are the best masterings of the Goblin catalog? Thanks for your help!

 

I can't believe someone is actually asking this on this forum.

Are there particular titles you're interested in? I could give you a better rundown that way, although it might be Friday before I have more time to do so.

Thing is, the 1990s Cinevox reissues have bonus tracks that are mostly interesting. They're still available and cheap too. One thing I can tell you is that they're anything but compressed - in fact, you need to turn some of them up loud. And I don't think those involved had any nifty digital editing tools like No-Noise handy to play with, which is a good thing. Biggest problem is that some of them have tape drag. The earliest Japanese releases still beat the others in sound. Finding them sometimes is not easy.

There recently have been Japanese mini-LP releases by Arcangelo that are, at least to my *ears* and from what I've been told, identical to the current Italian Cinevox issues. No, I haven't done an EAC on 'em.

I don't have catalog numbers in front of me, so I'll have to get those for you, but I'll give you a quickie rundown of the standout titles:

Profondo Rosso: Either the earliest Japanese release or the later "European Rock Collection" are best for sound, but the recent Italian Cinevoxes aren't bad and they do have loads of bonus tracks. The first Cinevox/Ciak release (with the modified cover) had excess tape hiss. I don't believe later releases were no-noised; I think these reissues were from copy tapes.

Suspiria: Almost every mastering I've heard sounds awfully similar to me.

Zombi / Dawn of the Dead: Sorry, I hate to say it, but I liked the US Varese Sarabande CD best just as I did their LP (the Italian and Japanese releases have always been muddy whereas the Varese issues were brighter). The problem of course is that the Varese release was an old limited edition disc that goes for hundreds! So in this case, I'd say even if muddy, the ones with the bonus tracks at least have those to make up for the sound. The Zombi/Tenebre disc on the Ciak label had excess tape hiss again. Seems Cinevox didn't know how to make copy tapes without introducing an immense amount of hiss.

Contamination: The Japanese SLC (Soundtrack Listener's) label beats the Italian Cinevox by far for me, but then again, those bonus tracks...

More later if you'd like.

 

Let me tell you, read the post above. If there's anyone who knows all about Goblin, it's that poor soul.

 

I had some of the Cinevox remasters and liked them.

 

Thanks for the great information! Specifically, I'm looking for the best sounding soundtracks. I've already got the following:

Roller (Japanese KICP 2865 Goblin Definitive Edition)
Il Fantastico Viaggio del bagarozzo mark (Cinevox MDF 323)
Non Ho Sonno (Cinevox MDF 342 DK)

Steve

 

I haven't had a chance to compare as many Goblin pressings and titles as you, but from what I've compared I agree completely. As for Suspirisa, I think the earlier Cinevox pressing might beat the reissue, but only by a very very tiny bit IIRC.

What about Cherry Five, the 'pre-Goblin' Goblin? Any opinions on the best CD version? I have the Cinevox 2002 remaster, I've never heard the others.

 

I didn't realize Cherry Five had been remastered. I have the Vinyl Magic CD and it sounds great to my ears. Very natural, not "digital" at all.

 

The remaster sounds decent, but I've nothing to compare it to, it's the only version I've heard. It's not brickwalled at all, which I find impressive for a 2002 remaster (unfortunately).

If you'd like to compare them, I can put a clip up. Or maybe somebody else could chime in and save us the trouble. Oh, I don't know, Jeff Carney maybe??

Awesome album isn't it? No Goblin fan should be without it.

 

Someone once told me that the first Italian CD of Cherry Five on the Vinyl Magic was a needledrop, but when I heard it, I didn't hear much if any difference from the Japanese CD I had. And that one is near perfect, IMO. I assume the needledrop claim is erroneous.

I don't recall the Italian Cinevox being noticeably different from that, but it's been a while since I checked since I really liked that Japanese edition and listen to that exclusively.

Though there are differences in some of the releases, many of the older Japanese discs sound exactly like the Italian Cinevox releases from later years, so my best guess is that the Japanese companies requested a digital master from Cinevox for their CDs, and Cinevox re-used a digital copy of that master for their issues. Normally you might think the Japanese companies would use whatever analog copy tapes were hanging around from when the old Japanese LPs were made, but my ears just don't suggest this to be the case here.

As promised, I'll give more details tomorrow to the OP regarding other titles.
And Dave W S, that's a great avatar.

 

I like mine even better.

 

Profondo Rosso

I was going to provide all of these recommendations from memory, but as I made some of the decisions about the "best" discs years ago, I thought it unfair to not give each pressing another listen with more educated ears. And it's a good thing that I did, as I found that in some cases discs I thought were flawed actually now sound excellent to me, and other discs are so similar even though they're not digitally identical that it's tough to decide where to place a recommendation.

Note that I've made these observations solely on listening with my ears and not analyzing waveforms or EAC numbers. Not that there is anything wrong with that; I just don't wish to invest the time in doing so right now, and in the case of Goblin on CD, it probably doesn't warrant it unless you really want to pick a single winner from very similar yet still different discs.

If you're not interested in my detailed ramblings, the short version is that none of the Goblin releases released so far are brickwalled or noticeably denoised - in fact, I don't believe digital noise reduction has been applied to any of the discs I'll discuss here. Only a few should really be passed up for funny EQ or digital glitches.

So let's start with my analysis of the Best Sounding PROFONDO ROSSO on CD. Comparisons were done using the tracks "Profondo Rosso" and "Deep Shadows". I compared on two different systems, neither of which are top tier systems, but I still believe these observations have merit. Yes, one of them was in the car stereo, but that is where I listen to all of my music so I know what I should expect from the sound there.


Ciak CD-CIA 5004 (Ciak '80s reissue cover art, Italy 1991) - I mentioned previously that this version has "excessive tape hiss", but I must retract that statement. Because it is mastered with brighter EQ than other issues of this title, there is a slightly more noticeable hiss at the start and end of certain tracks, but it is obvious I was being nitpicky when I first heard it. This is a really nice sounding disc. This disc is the CLEAR winner for the clarity and thump of the drums on "Profondo Rosso" and fullness of the overall track when the band kicks in. However, the slightly bright EQ detracted a bit from "Deep Shadows" during some parts where there are high-pitched synths and cymbals galore.

Nexus KICP 2751 (Original LP cover art, Japan 1995) - There is an earlier Nexus pressing that I unfortunately don't have to compare this one to. When compared to the Ciak issue, there is a better balance to the highs, but the "fullness" and warmth is sacrificed slightly here. This is one case where I'd believe that the Japanese discs were initially mastered from analog copy tapes for Japan specifically. It has that one generation down feel. Not bad at all, but if you hear the Ciak...

Cinevox CD MDF 301 (Modified cover art, "The Complete Edition", Italy 1996) - A revised version of the album with many bonus tracks interspersed with original album tracks and new cheapie cover art. This disc is mastered much quieter than any others of this title, but I found that when turning it up loud on my home system, it presented a nice, full sound. Just slightly less bright than the Ciak, but also slightly less warm. Problem is this disc is mastered *so* quietly that my car stereo reached MAX before it was at a volume that I really liked. As such, there wasn't even enough volume to drive the speakers to give me some decent bottom end.

Nexus KICP 2862 (Original LP cover art, Japan 2000) "Definitive Goblin Collection series" - There seems to be just a slight bit more bottom end on this mastering than the 1995 Nexus pressing. This benefits the sound of the drums mostly. I feel like "Profondo Rosso" is similar to the KICP 2751 release, but I actually like "Deep Shadows" on this one more than on the Italian CD-CIA 5004 issue. The drums thump more, the opening synth sounds more direct, and there should be no complaints of this sounding too bright.

Arcangelo ARC-7217/18 (2-disc Arcangelo mini-LP, Japan 2006). Mastered louder than the other discs but still not too loud, there seems to be some EQ'ing that does not improve things. On my home system I detected a slight timing glitch (tape drag or minor digital issue) near the beginning of "Profondo Rosso", but I didn't hear it the third time through when listening in the car. I do not have the latest Italian Cinevox 2-disc version to compare, though I've been told it is digitally identical to this version. Though this 2-disc edition has its merits for containing the original LP on one disc and having an entire second disc full of bonus tracks, when looking for the best sounding PROFONDO ROSSO, this disc is surely not your one-stop purchase.

Conclusion: Though I like both the "Definitive Goblin Collection" edition (KICP 2862) and the Ciak CD-CIA 5004 for different reasons, I'll call the Ciak disc the winner because of the warmth of its opening track. And this was a very common disc and should come up cheap on Ebay. If a slightly bright EQ bothers you (and this one doesn't bother me), go for KICP 2862 which will probably take a bit more patience to get and maybe $10 more. If you must have the bonus tracks (and there are some great ones sadly missing from the original album), MDF 301 is fine if you don't mind the revised track order, and bear in mind you may even want to re-burn this disc with some volume boost depending on your playback system. This disc should only cost around $15 as it was in print for years.

Whatever you do, be aware to avoid the CD titled DARIO ARGENTO GIALLO ALLEGRO which couples this soundtrack with SUSPIRIA. This is a bootleg which takes both albums from inferior needledrops. One of the only Goblin CDs I ever owned and dropped from my collection!

Useless trivia: If you want the track "Profondo Rosso" mastered with a huge amount of '80s reverb, hunt down the 15-track version of the GOBLIN GREATEST HITS CD from 1987 on Cinevox. That mastering has appeared nowhere else, but geez... that's just fine by me.

More titles are coming as soon as I can listen some more.

 

Cool, keep 'em coming! I ordered Profondo Rosso a few days ago. I've never heard it before oddly enough, I'm definitely looking forward to it. It looks like I ordered the Ciak, which is a good thing from what you say.

 

For Cherry Five, the Vinyl Magic CD is far better than the EQd Cinevox version. Iirc, the Japanese King CD is also the same as the VM disc.

 

Suspiria

Since the OP is interested in their soundtracks and already has a couple key albums, I'm going to skip around slightly rather than do these in exact order of original release.

Even if it's only for the benefit of one or two forum members, I'm glad I'm listening more closely to these discs as I've noticed some differences I never had before. So let me get started here with their most famous score, SUSPIRIA. Comparisons were done by ear using the tracks "Suspiria" and "Blind Concert". Though I said in an earlier post I wasn't going to, I had to get some help from EAC regarding this title.

Ciak CD-CIA 5005 (Ciak '80s reissue cover art, Italy 1987) - Regarding sound quality, there is really nothing to complain about on this disc. It sounds as if it came from the master or darn close. "Blind Concert" seems to have more of an analogue warmth when compared to the Japanese Nexus disc I'll get to next. It's mastered louder than most other CDs of this title (with many tracks peaking over 90%), but as it's a very early CD, I don't suspect any digital compression was applied. Aside from sound quality, it's worthy to note that the track index between the tracks "Black Forest" and "Blind Concert" comes approx. 7 seconds too early. Inexplicably, the CD also contains two tracks from ROLLER, the title track (incorrectly listed as "Aquaman") and "Dr. Frankenstein". But aside from those lapses in logic, this is a recommendable disc.

Nexus K32Y 2111 (Original LP cover art, Japan 1990?) - Contains more tape hiss noticeable at the start of the tracks I sampled (these are quiet moments). As such, I'd suspect this disc was taken from a copy tape, perhaps the one used for to create the Japanese LP. Other than the hiss, I don't notice any noteworthy differences over the Ciak on "Suspiria", but there is an obvious difference in sound on the drums in "Blind Concert". Whereas on the Ciak the bass drum is boomy and the hi-hat less audible, the entire kit is crisp and clear on this one with the hi-hat being more in the forefront, perhaps sounding a bit more digital. Even if from a copy tape, this is a well-mastered disc.

Crime KICP 2721 (Original LP cover art, Japan 1993) - An exact reissue of the Nexus K32Y 2111 release above.

Cinevox CD-MDF 305 (Modified cover art, Italy 1997) - The stereo channels are reversed on this and all subsequent masterings, so if you want to hear the image as originally on the LP without re-editing the tracks yourself, stick with one of the releases above. Aside from that, this remaster seems to be from the same tape used for the Ciak release, really not sounding much different at all although mastered quieter (but not nearly as quiet as some of the 1990's Cinevox releases - most tracks here peak in the 60% region). This and all other releases that came after contain bonus tracks, not all of much interest IMO.

Nexus KICP 2861 (Modified cover art, Japan 2000) - "Goblin Definitive Collection" series. Same mastering as the Italian MDF 305 above, reversed channels and all.

Arcangelo 7220 (Mini-LP, Japan 2006) - Strangely, this is the only disc in the Arcangelo box I've found so far that doesn't match the corresponding in-print Cinevox CD mastering. While it's clearly based on the MDF 305 mastering (i.e. with reversed stereo channels plus bonus tracks), the levels have been increased to make this a louder disc or at least even out the levels (on the Cinevox releases, the bonus tracks are often annoyingly louder than the LP tracks). If there is a sonic difference other than that, I was unable to detect it when I did my comparison. None of the waveforms seem to have any visible digital compression.

As for the bonus soundtrack CD included with Anchor Bay SUSPIRIA 3-DVD release - This is based on the MDF 305 mastering and has been re-EQ'd making the drums in "Blind Concert" seem overblown in the lower frequencies and the highs otherwise being less than natural.

Conclusion: Draw your own, please. The Ciak would probably be most folks' preferred version for sound quality matching the original Italian LP even with the incorrect track index. I think I prefer the Japanese Nexus mastering ever so slightly, but that could be because that's what I'm used to listening to (this disc is how I first heard SUSPIRIA), but it's obvious that it's not from the master. If you want the bonus tracks and don't mind the reversed stereo image, get the Arcangelo mini-LP while you still can for the packaging as well as fine sound. As it recreates the original LP's pop-up gatefold, it really is one of the most impressive mini-LP packages I have seen.

 

Zombi / Dawn of the Dead

My review of this title comes with a caveat - none of the CD releases of this title are without flaw, certainly more so than any other key title in the Goblin repertoire. I've always loved the recording/production on this album, especially with the overblown pounding drum sound. I'm no expert, but there appears to be a noise reduction issue of some sort on the master used, as we either get a muddy sounding mix with little tape hiss or a clearer mix with lots of hiss. There isn't much of an in-between.

"Dawn of the Dead" Varese Sarabande VCD 47106 (USA cover art, USA 198?) - As previously mentioned, this is the rarest of the CDs of this title. To my disappointment, the CD doesn't sound like the LP which was probably the best sounding version of this soundtrack that I have listened to. While a bit too heavy on the top end, there was no noticeable hiss on the US LP and it certainly didn't suffer from the "mud" of the Italian release. As for the CD, it seems to be from the same or similar tape used for the other releases I'll review, especially since the first two tracks are in the Italian LP order whereas they were reversed on the Varese LP. In any case, back to the CD. The overblown lows on the drums are present here, but this disc seems to be a bit light in the midrange, likely as an attempt to clear up the "mud". This EQ choice seems to make some tracks feel more "distant" than they should.

"Zombi / Tenebre" Ciak CD-CIA 5035 ('80s reissue cover art, Italy 1990) - Avoid. This disc not only contains a truncated version of the LP along with a truncated edition of the TENEBRE score, but it sounds as if it should have been mastered with noise reduction on and wasn't. Vast amounts of hiss overpower the music, and there is noticeable distortion on several tracks. This is not a CD for listening to, this is a CD for completists like me to store in the back of their collection.

"Zombie - Down of the Dead" Nexus KICP 438 (Original LP cover art, Japan 1994) - Following the sound and configuration of the original Italian LP, this one is heavy on the mud, but if you can get beyond that, this is a nice, full-sounding disc. Most especially in the bass guitar and percussion there is an analogue-like warmth. There is an earlier Nexus pressing that I suspect this is simply a reissue of, but I don't yet have that one to compare.

"Zombi - Dawn of the Dead" Cinevox CD MDF 308 (Modified cover art, Italy 1998) - Things are still as muddy as on the original Italian LP and Japanese CD, but the bass and percussion are noticeably weaker. This could be in part because this is a quiet CD, with the loudest LP tracks maxing out around 60%. I had to turn my home receiver to MAX to get it to drive the speakers well enough, but still this one came out sounding weaker than the Nexus. There are a few really nice bonus tracks though that shouldn't be missed, most especially the faster version of "L'Alba dei morti viventi".

"Zombi - Down of the Dead" Nexus KICP 2863 (Original LP cover art, Japan 2000) - "Goblin Definitive Collection" series. Exact same mastering as the Japanese KICP 438 above.

"Zombi" Cinevox CD MDF 606 ("Cinevox Gold Tracks" series, Italy 2006) - This disc is re-EQ'd to combat the mud that has plagued most other releases and all tracks have been normalized to 100% (which is ok I guess except that the the piano solo "Risveglio" should probably be quieter). There is no digital compression that I see when looking at the waveforms. The EQ'ing brings out the hiss considerably, and at times it's just too bright, especially on a track like "Tirassegno" which is based on acoustic guitars which sound tinny here. Luckily it doesn't seem that they applied the same EQ to the bonus tracks which otherwise sounded fine on the previous Cinevox release and for whatever reason don't have the same amount of hiss as the LP tracks.

"Zombi" Arcangelo ARC-7222 (Original LP cover art, Japan 2006) - Seems to match the Cinevox Gold Tracks (MDF 606) mastering above except that the tracks are lowered down to just under 99% instead of 100%.

Conclusion: If you want the disc that sounds closest to the original Italian LP, mud and all, get the Japanese KICP 438 or KICP 2863. After you get used to it, it's not so bad. For me, I think I prefer the Cinevox Gold Tracks mastering (MDF 606 or ARC-7222) even with the botched EQ. Besides having the bonus tracks, this album really needed some help in the EQ department. The Varese disc is more of a middle ground EQ-wise between the early Japanese issues and the Gold Tracks version, but that's not going to come cheap, so I'd instead recommend buying the early Japanese disc *and* one with the Gold Tracks mastering and enjoy them both.

 

Just wanted to say thanks to the few other folks in this thread for putting this band back in the front of my brain. As a result of my taking a gander back into my huge Goblin collection, I decided to check Ebay and Musicstack for the first time in a long while for some CD pressings I never grabbed.

As a result, I found and purchased an ultra-rare promo poster for ROLLER which I've only ever seen one guy have, and I've been envious of it ever since. I also managed to find an Australian vinyl pressing of DEEP RED/PROFONDO ROSSO on the Laser label, one of the most impossible to find Goblin LPs. Once I bid up to $400 on Ebay to win it, thinking no one would bid so high, and wouldn't you know some crazy person outbid me. That bummed me out considerably. Now I found a VG+ copy for under $50.

More info coming soon on the other Goblin CDs.

 

Funny...I just saw Susperia for the first time last weekend...any links to a good sounding CD of the soundtrack to purchase?

 

The latest release I've just learned of (in a digipack) is likely to be re-EQ'd given other recent releases from the label, so I'd look out for an old Cinevox/Ciak CD with catalog number CD-CIA 5005. My post above goes into more detail, but I'd suspect this would be the "forum preferred" version (if more than 3 of us on the forum gave a damn, that is. ) This is an old disc (possibly from 1987) but was available for years, so I find it mostly pops up on Ebay. There's one up there now, but it's WAY too expensive - you should be able to find these for $20 or less.

Here's the version of the cover you'd be looking for:

http://i2.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/e2/d8/fd42_1.JPG

Then again, if you don't want to hunt, this one is ok if you don't mind your left channel on the right and vice versa:

http://www.amazon.com/Suspiria-Fabio-Pignatelli/dp/B0000278YH/

 

Thank you for that!

 

Anything I can do to get more folks to add some Goblin to their collection I will be happy to do.

 

Thanks to all for this thread. I've loved their soundtrack work for years in film but never knowing what to look for on CD. Now I can start hunting.

Howdy, sentinel90125! What is the chance there would be two Goblin fans in Richmond, Va posting in this thread!

 

That's the one I have. Glad to hear it's the good one.

 

Pretty unbelievable given that the only other person I know from Richmond who is into Goblin doesn't post to this site! There are probably more closet Goblin fans out there lurking about....

 

Amo non Amo

Having covered the most popular three scores by the group, I move on to one that has been more or less overlooked. Created shortly after the breakup of the original group, keyboardist Claudio Simonetti is on board for the sessions, though Carlo Pennisi replaces Massimo Morante on electric guitar for AMO NON AMO. It is here where, in my opinion, bassist Fabio Pignatelli's musical influence on the group's sound is first heard.

There are only two releases of this soundtrack on CD.

Soundtrack Listeners SLCS-7151 (Original LP cover art, Japan 1992) - Following the track listing of the original Italian LP, the first side contained part of the score from this film whereas the second side was made up of "Goblin Greatest Hits", including the LP debut of "Yell", their theme for an Italian television series. Most casual fans would find a CD that contains only three exclusive tracks (all others were later featured on the Italian Goblin Greatest Hits CDs) of little interest. What is here sounds good, likely taken from the master provided by Cinevox, with the notable exception that the opening track, "Amo non Amo" contains some extensive tape drag, including a very noticeable warble near the beginning that has existed in every release of the track since this one, which seems to be apparent tape damage. This track also inexplicably fades in on the first few notes, whereas the track should start at full volume based on all other releases not taken from this source. All other tracks are free of such errors.

Cinevox MDF 347 (Modified cover art, Italy 2002) - Omitting the "greatest hits" tracks and adding 5 bonus tracks from the original score, this soundtrack finally stands out as a worthwhile addition to the Goblin discography. Musically, it's a solid listen. However, the release is not without its problems. The beginning of "Amo non Amo" is restored to start at full volume and there is no tape drag to be heard as it was on the Japanese release, but the previously mentioned brief "warble" is still there. Unfortunately, the guitar/organ rocker "Maniera" now suffers from severe tape drag on this release whereas this was not apparent on the Japanese issue. Other than these notable problems, sonically the two releases sound very similar as they would seem to be pretty much flat transfers from the original Italian tape.

A completest might wish to note that the two Italian CDs titled "Goblin Greatest Hits" contain the track "Amo non Amo" with its proper beginning and with no tape drag.

Conclusion: I can't imagine anyone here would want to wait for a $20 - $40 Japanese version of this CD to pop up on Ebay to obtain half of this film score, so my best recommendation is not to ignore the Cinevox MDF 347 release. This is a really nice soundtrack, certainly more restrained than those previous, that really illustrates the "Goblin sound" while still showing off the diversity of the composers. Sure, the tape drag on "Maniera" is a real drag, but this disc can be had for around $15 these days, so with expectations set for a disappointment on that track, it's still worth checking out.

 

I'm going to hijack my own old thread since it doesn't make much sense to add another Goblin thread when there is only a handful of members who know the band and even less who get all giddy over them. So this can serve as the all-purpose Goblin thread.

Just wanted to announce a couple of goings on in the Goblin world. You may know that in 2005, the band (Morante-Pignatelli-Marangolo-Guarini) reunited to create a CD called Back to the Goblin 2005. This material has just been released on vinyl by a new Polish label called GialloMusic. Honestly, it's collector-only stuff here - they confirmed for me that they used the CD to cut the LPs which is a bummer because some digital compression was already applied to that CD. But these are limited to 400 copies for the black vinyl version and 100 copies for the red vinyl version, so this is about as limited a release as they come. See http://www.myspace.com/giallomusicofficial for more details.

More exciting though is Maurizio Guarini's recent announcement that Goblin (now apparently calling themselves BackToTheGoblin due to Cinevox/Bixio owning their name and rights to their old music) will be performing live again this year for the first time in over 30 years, with their first gig happening in Germany this April. Aside from Italy and Germany, they also plan to perform in France and North America. The line-up is the late 1975-early 1977 line-up with keyboardist Aidan Zammit filling in for Claudio Simonetti.

As a huge fan of the band (can you tell?) I'm hoping word will get out so that a significant number of fans will come to these shows and show their support.

If there's even the slightest bit of interest here, I'll post updates on live gigs as soon as I get them. But a forum for the group that Maurizio Guarini moderates is at http://www.backtothegoblin.com .