Non-remaster of Billy Joel's "Turnstiles"

I just snagged a used copy in perfect condition for a grand total of $11.00 shipping included.

The 1998 remaster of this sounds good but this old Columbia cd has the edge. A bit more warmth. I sought this out for the original mix of "New York State Of Mind" which also has Richie Cannata's sax solo. The remaster used the version that was on the 1985 "Greatest Hits" album...it was a remix with a entirely different sax part...played by Phil Woods IIRC. The original mix of "NYSOM" has "air" to it...and the string arrangement really shines through.

I sure am glad I found this. I haven't heard this album for several years now and it's like revisiting a long, lost friend. It brings back memories when I first heard it. This album is criminally underrated...overshadowed by what came later.

 

I had the original vinyl album, but only decided to buy the CD when the remaster already had replaced the original issue. When I first played it, I immediately noticed the different sax solo on New York state of mind. I can't decide which one I like better, but I'm definitely more familiar with the old version.

The remaster sounds OK to me, but you've made me curious, so I will look out for an original CD if the price is right - it won't be that hard to find.

And you're right - Turnstiles shows Billy at the top of his game. It even might be his strongest album overall. Every track is a winner. I especially like James - an underrated track that doesn't appear on any Greatest Hits comp of his. Still it was his first charting single in the Netherlands.

 

I am intrigued. I'm pretty certain I borrowed an original UK CD from someone and I thought it sounded very thin - a bit like a bulk standard cassette but without the hiss. Maybe it was a different master? Or just the production in general?

 

My UK copy has CD Rot and I'm on the look out for a US CD or a vinyl... I've got the remaster and I wasn't used to the new sax part as well

 

I don't usually care about original cds vs. remasters, but this one makes me sad. Turnstiles is definitely in my all time top 10 favorite albums. I'll have to find another original copy.

 

can someone clarify the deal with "Cold spring harbour". From what i can gather it was originally pressed too fast. And when it was released on cd it was at correct speed with the strings removed. Does that sound right? Has it had a proper release speed corrected with the strings intact?

 

I don't know if the strings were removed, but I can tell you that "You Can Make Me Free" runs for several more minutes on the original. It goes into a long guitar solo.

And it's available on a semi-legit CD - it's not a bootleg, more like one of those cheap compilations - I picked one up at a store years ago. The quality was bad, but worth the $5.

 

I always wondered about this. Can you post a picture of it or give the pertinent info? My local FYE has a few different CDs of this material, and I never knew which one to get. Thanks!

Sorry to jump the Turnstiles. :rimshot:

 

By far, Turnstiles is my fave Billy Joel record.

 

See my review of that CD: http://www.amazon.com/Harbor-Sessions-Billy-Joel/dp/B0000A1M3O/ref=cm_cr-mr-img

 

But the remaster doesn't sound bad at all. Maybe a little bit harsh on my previous system but bloody good on my new one, On the other hand, ALL Billy Joel original CDs that I heard sound thin and taken from the poor tapes.

 

Not to thread crap here but...

One last reminder to do what you MUST (if you have a multi-channel playback system), to find the SACD of "The Stranger". I promise you that the 5.1 version of that album, will knock your socks completely OFF!

As for "Turnstiles", I had the original CD of that, but dumped it after I got the new remaster. I guess that I should have kept it? At least I kept all of the other original Japanese pressed Billy Joel CD's that I had, even after buying almost ALL of those remasters.

Chris C

 

Sorry, that's what I meant, I like the remasters and I have been replacing my original CDs with them one by one (I know that practice is usually frowned upon here). What I didn't know was that the sax solo was changed on "New York State Of Mind," and me being a completist, I need to have the original CD issue back.

 

Speaking of remasters (and Cold Spring Habor - I've read your review on line Jamie!) Cold Spring Habor is currently on amazon uk with a 01 Feb release date...

 

It does have more air but it's also a very bright and hissy track. It sure doesn't sound as good as the rest of that CD. Maybe the tape for the original mix of NYSOM is lost.

 

Hang on to the original Glass Houses and Songs In The Attic. IMO they were by far the best of the originals and wipe the floor with the remasters. Even way back in the day those 2 always sounded pretty darn good. Both are nice smooth warm easy listens with great dynamics, something the remasters partially fail to capture. Recently I found that the 35DP of Songs In The Attic is a Unique Mastering with a noticeably wider sound-stage and really clear vocals. Almost puts me right at the concert. It's an amazing disc and the finest Joel CD I've ever heard.

Rick

 

I see what you mean and I agree. But it's not overly bright to my ears. I'll take the hiss on this over the much drier remix.
I have no qualms with Billy remixing and dubbing a new sax part for the 1985 "Hits" album. As to why this remix was used for the "Turnstiles" remaster...that'd be my question among several for Mr. Joel if I ever met him.

I will say that B.J. remasters sound good and are worth having. Maybe a little trebly at times but no brickwalling.

In regards to Cold Spring Harbor...The reissue on Columbia in 1983 (same as the 1998 remaster) was a remix that is drastically different. I'm not sure if Billy was behind that one or if it was Artie Ripp. I wish we could see a remaster of the ORIGINAL mix.

But back to Turnstiles...I think "James" is one of those great "deep album cuts" you'll be rewarded in finding if you go beyond the "greatest hits". Such a cool song...love that fender rhodes.
I also have to mention the production on this album is top notch, with Billy in the producer seat. I'd love to see a deluxe edition of this including Billy cutting tracks w/Elton's band @ Caribou Studios...that was an idea of then-manager James William Guercio.

I will say that I found my copy on e-bay. Spine # CK 33848. I'd definitely recommend this one as a completist

 

It's not a re-remaster. It will be the Jensen remaster w/ lesser quality pacakaging (chinsy liner notes, etc).

 

Speaking of Cold Spring Harbor, I would suggest the Doug Sax CD over the Ted Jensen remaster. Neither are bad but Doug's mastering has a bit more depth in the midrange.

 

Doug Sax CD?

Jaime, more info please.

Thanks,
Rick

 

Well, they replaced the horrible drummer with a good one.

Overall they made the album much more listenable, IMHO. The original is pretty messy and there were lots of ideas that just didn't work very well. I think they did a nice job reworking things.

 

The original CD release was mastered by Doug Sax.

 

Ok, I did not know that. It was a speed corrected version, which I guess is a dream at best.

thanks

 

Yeah, it's the reworked version... not the original which is only on LP (and most copies are bootlegs).

 

One thing to point out about Turnstiles, the original tracks were recorded by Billy's long time live engineer Brian Ruggles. I think he's one of the best FOH mixers. Ever Billy show I've seen (around 20 of them) the mixes were spot on and very clear. Brian has always made the shows sound like records.