Who's Next Version Comparisons

In light of (again) all of the Who's Next talk, here's a comparison of most of the different (CD) versions:

http://lukpac.org/mp3/samples/bbe_comparison.mp3

0:00 - 0:22: Japanese MCA
0:23 - 0:45: German Polydor - notice the fade-up, more hiss
0:46 - 1:09: US MCA - narrowed, more hiss
1:09 - 1:32: MCA Gold - little hiss, sound of noise reduction (kind of "garbled")
1:32 - 1:55: MCA Remix

And info on the CDs themselves:

Japanese MCA - Mastered by SH. MCAD-37217. "Manufactured in Japan for MCA..." Inner ring: MCAD-37217 1A1 6X. 43:25:65
German Polydor - Polydor 813651-2. 1983
US MCA - MCAD-37217. "Manufactured in U.S.A. for MCA..." Inner ring: MCAD-37217 3S MFD BY JVC. 43:15:40
MCA Gold - MCAD-11312
MCA Remix - MCAD-11269

I didn't load up the Canadian or BMG versions. That's for another time.

One other thing to point out, the peaks were all quite different (for this section, -1.1 dB, -7.1, -3.8, -3.6, and -2.2, in that order). For the basis of comparison, I did normalize all of them to 100%. If for some reason anyone wants to hear a version "as-is", let me know.

 

Good stuff Luke!

Just to add some more datapoints from the copies I have:

Japanese MCA - Mastered by SH. MCAD-37217. "Manufactured in Japan for MCA..." Inner ring: MCAD-37217 1A4 6X. Time: 43:23:87

Japanese MCA - NOT Mastered by SH. MCAD-37217. "Manufactured in Japan for MCA..." Inner ring: MCAD-37217 S4E1. Time: 43:13:03

Canadian MCA - Mastered by SH. MCABD-37217. "Manufactured by Cinram for MCA Records Canada" Inner ring: #980614G MCABD-37217 L381 MFG BY CINRAM. Time: 43:24:27

 

If you would be so kind.....

 

That's a great demonstration Luke. Thanks.

Why do these guys use NR? Can't they hear it? Was that version mastered by Glenn?

I've never heard the remixed version before and just from this small sample you can tell it's very different. The guitar is shinier and less compressed, the vocal isn't as thick and is less vintage sounding and the width of the background vocals is much wider with more gack on them. Interesting.

 

There also seems to be some sort of "static" on the guitar in the remix...I've never been able to figure out what's going on.

-D

 

The gold version is/was, yes.

Give me about 10 minutes and I'll throw up a version "as-is".

 

Steve's was the loudest? That's unexpected.

 

Sounds like the same as mine. Let me check the time in EAC on the PC. What program did you use to check the time?

What's the style of the text here? Big and blocky like the JVC pressings? Or finer?

 

Re: Re: Who's Next Version Comparisons

Not completely. Assuming no compression is used, I'd probably expect Steve to be better than most as getting things to as close to 100% as possible.

I should check the peak level on the entire song...

 

Re: Re: Re: Who's Next Version Comparisons

Agreed. Using all available bits without clipping or too much compression is a good thing.


- Gabe

 

Here's the version as-is - the only "processing" was the MP3 encoding:

http://lukpac.org/mp3/samples/bbe_comparison_as-is.mp3

 

Ok, a few more things. First of all, with the exception of the MCA Gold CD, which peaks out at -0.2 dB (for BBE, that is), all other aforementioned versions peak out at 0 dB. The remix peaks at 2:18, while all others peak at 3:11 (if not at other places as well). The Japanese (SH) CD actually peaks in a number of places. Also, the SH CD does seem to be slightly "in the red", as the peaks seem to be ever so slightly clipped.

Here's a look at the German, Japanese, and Gold CDs, right around 3:11:

 

And here are the remix and US MCA, also at 3:11. Keep in mind the zoom is *slightly* different between the two grabs.

 

I used Bias Peak to suck all the tracks into one file.

The Non-SH Japanese has very fine text. I don't have the US JVC, so I can't compare. The SH Japanese is printed in a dot-matrix style.

Oh heck, a picture or two are worth a thousand words:

SH Mastered Japanese:


Non-SH Japanese:


Canadian SH:



So one last thing I noticed: the "good" Japanese version has double black rings printed on the front. The "bad" Japanese version doesn't. And neither does the Canadian.

Luke, does your US non-SH version have have the rings?

 

OK. I'm sold. The Japanese MCA done by Steve is by far the best sounding version. So natural and smooth.

So if I was to purchase the Canadian MCA version, am I getting the same mastering as the Japanese?

And thank you for the comparison, Luke!

 

Other than being "1A1", my Japanese looks identical.

Yes, it does. It also has a "darker" aluminum circle around the outside. The same "color" and width as the inner ring. For that matter, my BMG copy does too, although the text style in the inner ring is different (as is a bunch of other stuff, too).

I'll try and make some comparisons of the Japanese, BMG, and Canadian after dinner.

 

Not *exactly*. Differences:

- Canadian is "blacked" between some tracks
- overall level is lower on Canadian
- Canadian has a small pop/glitch in WGFA, not on any other version.

More in a few hours.

 

Some more findings, regarding the BMG and Canadian versions.

The peak levels for all of BBE are 0 dB and -0.8 dB for the BMG and Canadian versions, respectively. The peak levels for just the intro portion are -1.2 dB and -3.9 (in comparison to -1.1 for the Japanese).

Here's a comparison of all three, again, normalized to 100%:

http://lukpac.org/mp3/samples/bbe_jap-bmg-can.mp3

Japanese - BMG - Canadian

I'll try and get some waveform shots in a sec.

 

Here we've got the right channel of all versions of the original mix (of BBE) at 3:13, where the song peaks out. Some interesting things to note:

- the BMG and Japanese are very close. It's strange that there's *any* difference between them (there is).
- the peaks on the BMB and Japanese are clipped a bit. Both peak in several other places that the others don't.
- the absolute phase seems to be split down the line. Half are one way, half are the other. Interesting to note that the Canadian is opposite of the BMG and Japanese.

One then wonders how exactly the Canadian CD was produced, as it certainly didn't come from the same digital transfer as the Japanese and BMG - the peaks are not clipped. Although I must say I don't know what the effects of a D/A -> A/D transfer would have on things like that.

The plot thickens...

 

Er, here's that graphic. I guess you can't add a file if you go back and edit.

 

Well, Gary, why not listen to the MP3s?

 

Steve said a while back...

"I made a CD master and an analog safety copy of the original tape. This safety copy was probably duped for Canada (or digitally copied) and that is what they are using for THEIR CD master.

The fact that the tonality matches between the two discs (Old Japanese manufactured and current Canadian manufactured), means that both were sourced from my original mastering attempt."

Using the analog copy instead of the original CD master would explain some/all of the differences, wouldn't it? As to why there are differences between the Japanese and BMG versions...hmm.

Also...

Much thanks Luke for the MP3 and all the research. I had no idea the MCA Gold disc with NR sounded THAT bad. I could do a better job with CoolEdit. Well, I guess I'm sticking with my Canadian disc. As if there was any doubt.

 

The MCA gold is the worst of all versions...unlistenable IMHO.
BC

 

My copy does not have any indication that it was made in Japan. It clocks in at 43:26. The inner ring is different from any I've seen pictured. The engraving is DIDX-152 and 21A4. The catalog number is MCAD-37217. I believe this is a Steve Hoffman mastering that is non-Japan and non-Canadian. Could this be the most valuable CD in my collection? What's the story?