Copying vinyl at 1/2 speed

I've been wondering if there would be any benefit by copying vinyl to computer at 1/2 speed 16.65 rpm, then speeding up the file.
I've tried this with 78's, and it does seem to help with retrieving low level information.
My dedicated vinyl turntable has fixed speeds though, so I can't try this on my own. I'm curious if anybody else has.

 

Interesting question Ryan...I bet if you copied THE CHIPMUNKS at 1/2 the speed, you may end up with the "REAL" Ross Bagdasarian?

Chris C

 

It's been done.

On the other hand, that reveals Dave Seville for the being that he truly is:

SATAN.

 

i haven't, but i think the trick would be to re-eq it so it would sound right when you played it at normal speed.

i did this with the christmas song for a christmas compilation i made. it either made people laugh or drove them crazy, but you can hear what the vocals really sound like.

 

Well, isn't that special?

 

Yeah the riaa curve will be off. Might be somewhat tricky to re-eq as well? I guess if you record the low-level signal via the mic in instead of using the riaa stage, and then speed up and then apply the riaa curve in the digital domain it could turn out ok?

 

Not tricky, but another processing step. You lose a lot of resolution below 500Hz if you don't use analog EQ before digitizing, and need to watch your HF overload and distortion. Remember to load the cartridge correctly - a mic input isn't a phono input.

I'd be more worried about the (pretty abysmal) wow and flutter percentages at 16 2/3. There's a lot less inertia at that speed. Other than a cutting lathe, I don't know of any direct drive turntable that runs that slow.

Copying at low speed does allow one to play quite warped records, though. I know it's been used for that. I suspect re-eq was 'guesstimated' on those transfers.

 

I tried it with some 45s and it turned out like crap. I don't know all the technical babble, but it definitely lost some of the magic that the original playback speed delivers. Seemed like a decent idea in theory, but I think the true sound got lost in translation - if that makes any sense.

 

I would just think, with tape faster is better.

 

If you're going into the phono stage of a receiver and then into the computer, your phono stage is applying the RIAA EQ at the wrong frequencies. You would need to shift everything down an octave assuming you're transferring at 16.66 rpm. Not easy to do at the analog level unless you're a) an electrical engineer and b) really handy with a soldering iron.

But then, even CBS made the same mistake. When they hastily released their half-speed masters to compete with MFSL, they apparently didn't shift their mastering EQ down an octave so their earliest releases sounded like crap.

 

There is (or was) a DJ-oriented one that can do this (anywhere from 16 - 90 RPM) but who knows how well it would sound. I had considered this for declicking purposes: at double speed, the "shockwave" from loud pops would in theory be half as long and require half as much processing. I gave up on the idea when confronted with the EQ issues, and the cost of a table of unknown sonic qualities.

 

I thought the Technics sl-1200 might work for this purpose, but with all the other technical issues, it sounds like too much bother for a likely negligible benefit. If any. Thanks for the feedback anyway.

 

And after the playback, when the speed is doubled, so is the periodicity of wow and flutter. Also, rumble goes up an octave, where it may be more audible.

 

On the other hand, if like me, you enjoy putting Rat Fink or troll dolls on your turntable while you play your records, they wouldn't be as likely to fall off!

 

I don't see ANY benifite to copy vinyl at halfspeed. 16/44.1 is enough to make a perfect copy.

 

I've done this a several times for certain albums. The result is pretty good. The way I do it is pretty simple - record at 48k/24bit at 1/2 speed (I'm good with electronics and purposefully re-configured the pitch on a TT to go all the way down to 1/2 speed). Then just "switch"/adjust the playback to 96k and the thing plays at normal speed. If I like what I hear, just convert the 96 to 48 and save it. Most of the time there's really no big difference, but on some LPs where there is sibilance or other "anomalies" that are "fixed" by playing at slower speeds, it does a nice job. My personal opinion is those Stan Ricker (SR/2) LPs sound a bit better when done this way. Maybe it's wishful thinking in some cases though.
As for de-clicking, if it's done while still in half speed - when sped up to normal speed the results are pretty good. Note that many turntables with pitch control can at least get down 25% (3/4 speed) and this same method works almost the same. (Instead of going from 48k to 96k, it would be 48k to 60k.)
Anyone interested in hearing a sample?

-Bill

 

This is very intresting. I didn't think about sibilance. You maybe are on to something here

 

I hope Warners is still hireing him for some of those "Because Sound Matters" albums. He needs the work.