"Help" version question

Living in the usa, I havent heard many mono U.K single versions. I was at a cd store, they were playing a "Beatles U.K. Singles Cd." I think it might have been a bootleg because of the way the guy dodged the question about cd. All songs were the songs with some mono variations. Help, this version was great. Little echo, John voice seemed more desperate and higher pitched, the ending was different too. I know I'm being vague, but this version was excellent. He said the cd was Uk Hits 2 cd set, but Slow Down was on the cd. Thanks for reading. He would not show me the case

 

This is the "other" lead vocal for Help. It has been discussed a lot here, but I don't think anyone has gotten to the bottom of the circumstances of when this alternate vocal was recorded. Which came first, single version or album version? Wasn't the LOVE project supposed to shed light on this? Or the Recording The Beatles book?

 

Recording the Beatles does shed some light on this (although not conclusively). It shows pictures of the Beatles at a film studio overdubbing vocals for the song Help! (you can see the lyric sheets). The rationale for the overdub session being that they needed to match the movie performance.

 

I remember as a kid, in the 70's, having owned the HELP 45 on the Apple label with the original mono mix and then bringing home a copy of the HELP soundtrack LP for the first time and being totally bummed and dissapointed that the LP version of HELP was not the same as the 45. I have always prefered the single version. I think the vocal track is much better, John's singing and timing is much better. I think he was trying to sound too much like Bob Dylan, dry and nasal, when he sang the vocal track used on the Stereo mix.

I was very happy to find that the single version was on the UK HELP LP reissue in '82 (and on the original UK album).

And then I was greatly dissapointed when they left the single version of HELP off the Past Masters CD when they had included the single's flipside track, I'M Down. I never understood that omission.

 

It's definitely a bootleg. I can't pinpoint which one because of the inclusion of "Slow Down". There is a US singles set but that's 3 CD's. That mix of "Help" was on the US single too. Maybe it's something a buddy made for him.

 

The different versions of the song "Help!" correspond to whether the version was mono or stereo. The familiar "LP" version of "Help!", as we all noted, is on the stereo pressing of the UK Help! LP. (A James Bond intro was added to this same version for the US stereo pressing of the Help! soundtrack LP, which was then folded down to mono for the US mono pressing of that same LP.) The "single" version of that song is on the mono pressing of the UK Help! LP and on both the UK and US 45's (though as usual, the US single sounded "muddier" than either the UK single or LP due to differences in the mastering between the two countries).

As for fold-downs on the US mono Help! soundtrack LP, the song "Ticket To Ride" came out especially badly on that fold-down: It was folded down from the Capitol Duophonic mock-stereo master for that song, while the real mono mix could officially be heard in the US only on the Capitol 45 RPM single.

 

Three versions that I know about:

The mono mix heard in original prints of the film contains what I will call "vocal pass 1," for lack of a better term.

The mono mix heard on the single contains "vocal pass 1" for the most part, but the intro vocals are the same as those heard on the stereo mix. There is an obvious edit on the downbeat at the start of the verse, the word "when."

Then there is the stereo mix and it's associated fold-downs, containing "vocal pass 2."

Again, I'm using "vocal pass 1 & 2" merely as distiguishing terms, not as factual indicators of the chronology of the the recordings. In fact, I think the order is the opposite.

There is no question that the multitracks in existance at EMI for Help contain only the vocals we hear on the stereo mix.

There is also no question that the Beatles recorded another vocal pass at the film studio.

So, my theory is this (and I really think I'm right):

The mix heard on the original Help prints contain the entire film-studio vocal take. The single mix has the EMI intro with the film-studio body. The stereo mix has the EMI vocals only.

I have a copy of the sound-track from an original Help print, though not in great sound quality. The intro is rather weak.

Here is an excerpt of the film-print version. You'll notice a very different intro, but the same verse as the single mix.

http://www.galileeprod.com/helpfilmmixex.mp3
GD

 

Thanks for that. I've read that theory before, that the "gruff" stereo vocal take was actually the original. So then, which backing tape was used for the film studio take, if that vocal isn't on the multitracks? What did they sing to?

 

The concept of Past Masters was 'previously released Beatles songs not included in the 13 CD's' not one of 'versions NOT in the 13 CD's' when it was issued way, way back in '88.
That's a reason why a Singles Collection double CD would be a good idea - all the singles versions in one place with the B sides too.
It first came out in 3 inch CD form in 1989 in mono and currently is in the Singles Collection box set.

Regards,

 

Yes, the way John sings the words "I've Changed My Mind" he doesen't rush them on the Mono 45 version. Where he does on the Stereo version.

What I'd like to know from DJBRYAN is if he could explain about the ending being different. The ending I'm most familar with that seems to sound different is where the mmmmmm's seem to be louder and longer as well as you can hear Paul's higher vocal harmony end the song.

 

Presumably a tape copy of the instrumental track.

No doubt, the endings are different between the single and stereo takes.

GD

 

What exactly do you feel is not conclusive about their explanation?

Derek

 

Well, they have pictures of the Beatles presumably recording vocal overdubs for Help!. But it's not conclusive, IMO, because they could have been doing that for a number of reasons, or alternatively the vocals may not have been used. However, it's the most reasonable and logical explanation that I've heard so far, and I'm inclined to go along with it unless something else comes up.

 

Here's a possibility. The authentic mono mix of Help sounds a generation higher than the stereo to my ears. Perhaps, all available instrumental material not on the original vocal tracks was mixed to a single mono track. Then the double-tracked Single Version vocals were overdubbed onto that tape. This all probably happened because the original vocals were considered too sloppy although I'm certainly used to them. When it came time for stereo mixing, that last multi-track stage tape was either misplaced or abandonned in favour of doing a better stereo mix from the earlier multi. Of course, the mixing strategy changed considerably on Rubber Soul but I'm just speculating here.

What was being heard in the store was probably the popular US Singles collection boot.
Bob.

 

Actually, the guy said it was a 2-disc set right? Is the mono Help on the EP Collection? I can't remember. In any case, both official multi-disc ses each fit rather nicely on 2 CDR's. It really could have been anything.
Bob.

 

My sentiments exactly. After listening to the 45 (orange and yellow swirl) for so long, I quickly disliked the album version of the song Help! To this day I prefer the single version - John's vocal just sounds better.

 

The Mono Help! isn't in the official EP collection but IS in the Singles collection.

 

Not only are the lead vocals different on the "mono" version, but also the backing vocals are different. This is harder to hear, but if you compare them, you'll notice it.

Then, of course, there's the tambourine -- present in the stereo mix but not in the mono.

On the mono mix, John mistakenly sings "And now these days are gone..." the first time through. He gets it right in verse 3.

On the stereo mix, John's got "But now..." correct, but rushes "I've changed my mind."

The superior intro was obviously tacked onto each.
Now, IF we trust bootleggers, the session tapes reveal that ALL of the later-added material was added to take 8 of the song (with mixdowns where necessary). An overdub for George's guitar was necessary because he was having trouble playing it while singing backup. At one point, Paul remarks "we've got TWO vocal tracks." Yet the "mono" vocals never seem to appear.

So, did they add two COMPLETE vocal tracks to a single take?? With only takes 9, 10, and 12 containing the backing in take 8, are there enough takes on the tape to explain all the additions? Possibly. In one of his books (not "Recording Sessions," but I don't recall which one), Lewisohn says they did the whole thing with editing. Even if parts of takes 9 and 10 were edited to make each version, take 11 was aborted -- so you'd get only one finished take that way.

IF THEY DID record a set of lead and backing vocals for the film (not on the master), did they add George's lead guitar, too? Or did they create the "film" vocal AFTER they were entirely finished...and if so, why? Plus, here's the odd thing...Lewisohn says they did the whole thing on April 13th -- with George's final guitar overdub ONLY appearing on take 12.
So...are both sets of vocals to be found on Take 12?

It's theoretically possible that Takes 9 and 10 have the two different vocal sets, with the tambourine and guitar added to two tracks of take 12. Technically, then, one could peel the guitar from 12 and add it to the take with the other vocal, but that wouldn't have been easy in 1965 (with manual synch), so why?

Or is there indeed an un-numbered 13th take with the "mono" vocals lurking about somewhere? No tambourine because it might not have worked in the film track.

 

Rather than go through point by point...

Take 8 is *not* the basis for the final take. Take 9 is. The recording was done as follows:

takes 1-9:
1 - bass/drums
2 - guitars

onto take 9, the vocals were overdubbed:
1 - bass/drums
2 - guitars
3 - lead vocal/backing vocals/tambourine
4 - lead vocal/backing vocals

The lead guitar fills still needed to be overdubbed, so reduction mixes were made from take 9:

takes 10-12:
1 - bass/drums
2 - guitars
3 - 2 lead vocals/backing vocals/tambourine

Only one vocal track was wanted in the intro, so one was muted. Take 10 quickly breaks down because both vocal tracks were up in the intro.

Then the lead guitar was overdubbed onto take 12:
1 - bass/drums
2 - guitars
3 - vocals/tambourine
4 - lead guitar fills

That's the stereo version. The mono is less clear, but *apparently* all of the music tracks were bounced down to one, either on a mono tape or on a stereo tape with the vocals on the other track. That was then *apparently* dubbed to a 3-track tape at CTS, with all of the music on one track and 2 new vocal tracks recorded on the other 2 tracks. At this point there isn't much (any?) documentation about this, other than the photos of the session.

 

Maybe the mono vocal tape was kept with the film materials or left at CTS and discarded? Because it certainly isn't in the EMI vault...

 

Luke's explanation disagrees on several point with Lewisohn, who makes Take 9 out to be a mixdown and Take 10 to be "complete" (while Take 11 broke down). Lewisohn also says that Take 12 was the only one to have the overdubbed guitar. Doesn't matter. Let's start here:

"onto take 9, the vocals were overdubbed:
1 - bass/drums
2 - guitars
3 - lead vocal/backing vocals/tambourine
4 - lead vocal/backing vocals"

If that's the case, 1, 2, 3, + guitar = stereo
1, 2, 4 = mono ?
There's still the need for another unnumbered set of vocals?

 

Luke's info is correct. This is what is heard on the session tape which has been bootlegged in total.

Take 9 is the final basic instrumental take with overdubbed vocals. Takes 10-12 are mixdown "takes" of Take 9. Take 10 wasn't used, Take 11 was aborted because Norman Smith forgot to mute one of the intro vocals, Take 12 is the final mixdown onto which the lead guitar was added.

 

Frank -

Vocal tracks 3 and 4 of take 9 were combined into one track of take 12 and guitar was added to the empty track. Everything you hear on the stereo mix is everything on the mutli-track. Take 9 sounds exactly like Take 12 only there isn't any lead guitar and the vocals are split onto two seperate tracks.

The mono mix was created by mixing down Take 12 to a mono tape, with the vocal/tambourine track removed...then new vocals were overdubbed at a different studio either while simultaneously making a new mono mix or by transferring the mono backing track mix to a mutli-track and overdubbing the vocals onto that. The fact that there are no mutli-tracks in the EMI vault with the mono vocals seems to suggest the former. Understand now?

 

What Lance said.

Take 12 was then dubbed and sent to CTS to have new vocals recorded, which were the mono/film vocals.

 

Supposedly the "mud" in the mono UK 45 mix is because the azimuth and/or the eq at the film studio did not match the machines at Abbey Road 100%. I think the 'Recoding The Beatles' book nails the mystery. They replaced the vocal because there is no tambourine present in the film performance; to remove the tambourine from the audio they had to recut the vocal (as both vocal and tambourine were on the same track). This also gave John a chance to sing the song a little better, which he did quite successfully.