Finding The Best Sounding Genesis (Part 1), Album By Album...

Help me find the best sounding Genesis CDs. If you have any information on who mastered them (Like Barry or Zal) please let me know how to identify them.

Here's what I have so far:

1. From Genesis to Revelation- DCC (duh!)

2. Trespass- MCA CD (MCAD-1653).

The Definitive Edition is hideously NR'd. Avoid that one, it's the worst of the bunch.

The Charisma CD is from a higher generation tape so and has what sounds like analog noise reduction applied. It's muffled and pumps like digital NR.

3. Nursery Cryme- I only have the Definitive Edition. It has some very light NR but sounds decent enough. I've never heard the Zal mastering.

4. Foxtrot- The Zal mastered Atlantic CD (Atlantic 7 81848-2).

The Definitive Edition is NR'd to the point of muffling some of the softer passages. Ick!

5. Live- Charisma CD (CLACD 1). Is this Zal again?

The Definitive Edition is hollow in comparison.

6. Selling England By The Pound- Charisma CD (CASCD 1074). It sounds great.

The Definitive Edition is also good but there is a top end boost and some very light NR.

7. The Lamb Lies Down- I only have the Atlantic CD. Is this another Zal mastering?

7. Trick Of The Tail- The Diament mastered CD is amazing (ATCO 38101-2). One of my favorites!

The Definitive is NR'd and EQ'd.

8. Wind & Wuthering- I know it's not popular here but I really like the Atco CD (ATCO SD 38 100-2). It sounds like there was some sort of analog NR but the tapes were probably Dolby A.

The Definitive Edition isn't too bad either. It has the typical top and bottom EQ and some light NR.

9. ...And Then There Were Three- Atlantic CD (Atlantic 19173-2).

The Target CD is digitally identical and has been lowered 2dB for some reason(!).

Again, the Definiftive Edition has EQ and NR. It's not bad but not the best.

10. Duke- The UK Charisma CD I have is amazing (CBRCD 101). I've been told the standard US CD is slightly better but I suspect it's another digitally identical CD.

Avoid the Definitive Edition. It's extremely smiley faced. Horrible!

I only have one version of the other albums on CD. I have a full set of Japanese and UK vinyl plus the Classic Records releases. I only looking for CD suggestions right now.

Thanks!

 

I have 3 Japanese target Genesis albums: Genesis, Invisible Touch and ABACAB.
The standout in that group is the self titled album(one of the 1st CD's I ever bought). Do you have the fatboy pack of "Lamb" Atlantic CD?

 

Yes, it's the only CD copy I have. Is it better than the Definitive Edition?

 

Jamie - its a very small point but the Disky version of Revelation is a clone of the DCC. Just in case someone finds it cheaper.

I do have an Atlantic copy Nursery Cryme that to me doesn't sound all that great. I think asked about it when I first came to SH.TV but I don't remember if there was any comment.

 

If you can, check out the Charisma CD of this. Especially a Nimbus pressing.

IMHO, this is the only remaster in the whole Definitive Remasters that actually shines. IIRC, the US disc has a hum all though the first disc and when I heard the Charisma, I thought there was a speed issue.

Amen! Though I've heard the Charisma disc also is very good.

I have to disagree with you here. When I first got the Atco (pre-remaster), I was stunned at how poor it sounded. There was hardly no bass and it seemed quite bright. I had a friend who worked at an import CD store here and get me a Charisma copy and I was blown away. Extremely close to both the original US and UK vinyls.

I didn't think the Definitive Edition of this title wasn't all that bad, far better than the original Atco. But again, JMHO.

Never sought out a Charisma pressing of this because I didn't think it could get any better than the original US. Thought I had read somewhere that there were a couple of pitch issues with the Charisma which resulted in a slightly shorter running time than the US pressing. Could be have misread it though.

 

Whoa, thanks Todd. Great post.

So it is a different mastering. I'll start looking. I'll also look for a US Duke.

So, other than Lamb the Definitive Editions aren't the best?

 

Hi Jamie,

I have the original Canadian CD version of this. It's on Atlantic (CD 81855). The notes say that this version was mastered by Zal. I like the sound of this disc. I agree that the Definitive Edition sounds bad. Very thin. Plus they screwed up the index point leading into The Knife, IIRC. I got rid of that version.

I like my original UK vinyl the best, though! One of my favorite live albums of all time.

Cheers,
Chris

 

This was discussed also here:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=47469&highlight=Genesis+Selling+Charisma

Perhaps the thread title should be changed to "cd by cd"? As there is also a lot of interest in the different vinly pressings of Genesis and the Search function is a valuable tool.

 

Any idea if the West German CD is the same thing? This CD sounds very nice. I bet they're the same.

 

I don't like the DE Lamb. I think it is too clinical and cold sounding. Carney says the Charisma is best, even though it has that low-level hum in one channel.

 

I saw a lot of them but those threads are closed.

 

I'm curious to know which Charisma CDs are identical to the US CDs and which ones are different.

 

re: Genesis Live

I'm afraid that I can't confirm it either way as I've never had the WG version. I would tend to bet with you on that one. Likely the same. I got this CD around 1990.

I just checked all of my other Atlantic CD pressings (Nursery, Selling etc...) and none of them have mastering credits... only the Live album. Very odd! Was Zal reputed to have done any others for Atlantic?

Cheers,
Chris

 

Supposedly he did Selling England and Nursery Cryme also but I'm not sure. This is why I started the thread.

Maybe Zal or Jeff will chime in.

 

Hopefully!

I guess that the ones that you list as on Charisma were issued in Canada on Atlantic (like the Live album). If the US Charisma and Canadian Atlantic are both the Zal version, I imagine that the other Charisma/Atlantic version would be the same masterings.

Cheers,
Chris

 

Not necesarrily....

The albums I mastered for Atlantic were (to the best of my memory)…

Foxtrot
Nursery Cryme
Live

I did not master…The Lamb Lies Down

Something about Duke niggles my brain

I don’t know anything about the Charisma CD(s)…Did they use my mastered version(s)??

 

Jamie: thanks for starting the thread We really need a thread to get down to the bottom of which pressings are best
Hi again Zal! I just ordered your Foxtrot and I am waiting to get it. Two things that came to my mind:

1) Are the original V/C CDs the same mastering as the Atlantics or did they sometimes/mostly use different masterings.


2) Besides Trick of The Tail (which I am getting unless someone tells me the V/C is better) did Barry Diament master any other Genesis?

PS- When I type V/C, I mean Virgin Charisma (the non-DE CDs) I hope I'm usingthe right terminology?

 

There is no such thing as a US Charisma.

 

Does anyone want or need a sample from the original Atlantic Nursery Cryme?

 

The Virgin Charisma discs which were issued in the U.K. predate the Atlantic discs in the U.S., so anything that Zal or Barry did will not be the same mastering as the Virgin Charisma. The Virgin Charisma discs I'm speaking about are the ones with the cropped covers. I can remember buying those right around the time they first came out. I did not see any of the Atlantic discs on the shelves until sometime later. From what I've heard (I have almost all of the Virgin Charisma and Atlantics'), I don't think any 2 titles use the same mastering.

 

Not to nit pick, but there is no Target CD of 'Invisible Touch' (Target discs are 'Genesis', 'Abacab', and 'Then There Were Three'). I have a Japan made disc for the U.S. of 'Invisible Touch', and it sounds fantastic. I'm sure the early U.S. made CD's use the same mastering.

 

Hi Zal,

Thanks for the info. I'm actually glad to hear that you didn't do Lamb. The tapes used were the ones from the very first UK album pressing which had the annoying buzz. This problem was discussed in another thread about Lamb some time ago.

So, you didn't do the Atlantic Selling England? As I previously mentioned, Genesis Live is one of my favorite live albums. I really like the sound that you got on the Atlantic CD!

Cheers,
Chris

 

I found the reference to the Charisma label CDs a bit confusing since no particular country was mentioned. Thanks for clearing that up.

Cheers,
Chris

 

US Dukes seem to come and go. For awhile there, most of the CD Exchanges here in Cleveland seem to have an abundance of these, haven't come across too many of them lately.

IMHO, the only definitive discs I like are The Lamb, Wind and Wuthering and Seconds Out. I've heard bits of Three Sides Live and that didn't seem too offensive either. The others seem a bit brighter which is probably cause they boosted the highs to compensate for the NR.

 

Me too!

As I mentioned before, there are multiple masterings on the early Foxtrot Charisma CDs. I personally prefer the non-NIMBUS version.

I think we need samples. I have Charisma CDs of all albums up to Wind and Wuthering. Phil Elliott has a different Foxtrot Charisma CD.