I used the search function and came up with nothing definite on this issue: Considering the Beatles UK vinyl stamper numbers (whether Y/B, one box, two-box Parlophone or Apple labels doesn't matter)...has anyone cataloged the numbers which are tube cut as opposed to those which are solid state cuts? I know the year was 1969 when they went SS cut. This seems like it would not be that difficult to do. The stamper numbers don't get that high, and there's a finite number of albums at issue here, and the sound is noticeable. For example: I was recently listening to a two-box 'With The Beatles' having -2 stampers on each side. They are clearly tube cut. Then I found a -2/-4 copy. The -4 side two was a solid state cut. I also found A Collection of Oldies....The first pressings as far as I can tell use -1G on both sides and these are tube cut. Recently I came across a -2 on side two pressing but, don't have a -1G to compare it to. I also have a Revolver that uses -2 on each side, a white album that uses -1/-3, and so on. It would be great to see someone with a lot of Beatles LPs, or experience in this, identify what the 'crossover' stamper numbers are. The two-boxes often have mixed sides yet they are a source of relatively inexpensive Beatles pressings. Both cuts have their merits - it would be nice to locate and collect the LPs that use the same (tube or SS) cuts on both sides!
I am curious too, specifically when it comes to the stampers used on the 1982 UK mono issues. Some like, Yellow Submarine, which is a fold down so it doesn't really matter are -1/-1s. While a record that sold more say the White Album is -2/-2/-4/-2. I wonder if those had to be created in 82 or if they had gotten that high in the count back in the 60s, and were in fact were they left off, meaning they were tube cut. thanks for the good thread Raunch Clay
I am speaking mainly of the stereo pressings here. By 1969 its my understanding that the monos were still in catalog but essentially unavailable - and didn't sell that well anymore anyway. That suggests theres not going to be very many later lacquer cuts for mono pressings, that is, after the solid state era. It seems certain that a -1 is going to be a tube cut. However I seem to recall somewhere that there are not -1's for all the stereo pressings. As Steve has said before, sometimes they needed to make a a new cut to keep up with demand or a stamper had broke, etc. As I pointed out, a -4 for side two of WTB is definitely a solid state cut. Rubber Soul, Revolver, Sgt. Pepper, & Abbey Road are particular LPs I see with higher numbers. Their mid period-on albums I've noticed seem to maintain a pretty healthy following through every generation, moreso than the earlier pre-Help LPs. So new stampers would be needed.
For the stereos it's pretty straight forward because all the originals are tube cut except Abbey Road and Let it Be (and perhaps YS) ostensibly. Almost none of the original LP's saw recuts in the sixties (Rubber Soul being the exception). So other than With the Beatles (which was -2/-2 originally) all the tube cut LP's are -1/-1, IIRC. Mono is more complicated since there were recuts in the sixties and then some were recut in 1981 for the mono reissues. I don't have all the mono reissues, but I know that one side of Rubber Soul and one side at least of Beatles for Sale were recut. Regarding the White Album, I have never seen definitive proof that the White Album was tube cut.
We had an interesting discussion of this in a Revolver thread sometime ago, where fraser came up with a great idea. I think for stereo cuttings the best place to look would be the MFSL boxset covers, which feature close-ups of the master tapes boxes. This provides dates at which the different cuttings took place until the early 1980s. So for purposes at hand (i.e. tube cut vs solid state cut) it would be fine, I believe. I don't have the MFSL boxset, so I can't draw the whole list. But I do have fairly legible copies from Mirror Spock's transfers of the UHQR Pepper and MFSL Yellow Submarine. For Pepper, here's what I found: side 1: 637-1 1/5/67 637-2 9/4/75 637-3 29/8/76 637-4 6/7/78 637-5 20/7/78 side 2: 638-1 1/5/67 638-2 27/9/71 638-3 22/10/75 638-4 29/8/76 The above were all cut by Harry T. Moss ('HTM'). Assuming those dates indeed refer to cuttings, it becomes easy to see which ones were 'tube-cuts' and which were 'solid state'—the rule of thumb being that anything cut before 1969 would likely be 'tube-cut', and anything cut after would likely be 'solid state'. In this case, we can assume there's only one tube-cut of Pepper, i.e. the -1/-1 from 1967. We can also make sense of -1/-2 pressings showing up until late 1974/early 1975. What we cannot find out with this list, however, is whether EMI continued to use older metal parts after new ones were made. But that has no bearing on the tube-cut vs solid state issue. For stereo pressings of Revolver, look at this thread, particularly at fraser's posts.
Another pressing question (no pun intended) is to find out exactly when EMI started using a solid state cutting system. A related question concerns the tube cutting system. Steve, I believe, has mentioned several times that EMI acquired a solid state cutting system sometime ca. 1969. Abbey Road was cut on the new system. Does that mean that EMI stopped using the tube cutting system from that point on ?
See this thread, where some of these issues were discussed: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=56088
Correct on WTB stereo. In addition, there is no -1/-1 for Rubber Soul (stereo) either. And Abbey Road -- while not tube cut -- does not have a -1 for side 1. A -1 matrix exists for all other sides of the UK stereo LPs. As far as I know, all of the 1-box pressings are from tube-cut lacquers (with the exception of the rare export issues of Abbey Road, Hey Jude, etc.)
Thanks - 1966 - first line It appears the second is March 1973? The third is April 1976. Then theres a second set of dates. I'm wonder what those are about. The first two are 1966, then what appears to be 197? for the third line - its before 1976 though. To their right it seems to say Sub 1 & Sub 2. Perhaps the date copy tapes made? hhmm...
Hard to read indeed. Here's the whole set. Note that the first three albums only feature the dates at which the boxes were opened/re-sealed. Things change with Beatles For sale.
So to review for stereo the following are assumed to be tube cut: Please Please Me -1/-1 With the Beatles -2/-2 A Hard Day's Night -1/-1 Beatles For Sale -1/-1 Help! -1/-1 Rubber Soul -2/-2 and -3/-3 Revolver -1/-1 Sgt. Pepper -1/-1
Looks good to me except you can add: A Collection Of Oldies -1G/-1G. I don't think the White Album was tube-cut (it doesn't sound it to me) but if it was, I believe you could add: -1/-1/-1/-1 and -2/-2/-2/-2.
This is getting good! Plus 'Oldies' with -1G/-1G ...as noted above. Wouldn't the White Album (and Yellow Submarine) be tube cut? My understanding is EMI went solid state sometime in '69. Or are we getting too close to speculation as to when - specifically - solid state cutting began?
EMI went solid state for mixing and tracking sometime in 1969 (although not fully). Whether or not they had solid state cutting equipment before that I don't know, but some forum member have stated that they believe the White Album was solid state cut. Those who know can usually tell by the markings that the cutter leave, i.e. the lead in and out grooves.
Does anyone have a list of the LOWEST Stamper Numbers for each UK Mono album. I believe that the 1st pressings don't all start at -1?
That's correct. The monos are all -1 matrices except the following - A Hard Days Night -3N/-3N Beatles For Sale -3N/-3N Help! -2/-2 Revolver -2/-1 Same for the stereos, except - With The Beatles -2/-2 Rubber Soul -2/-2 Abbey Road -2/-1 Let It Be -2U/-2U
So if you have these stampers you are assured of having a "tube" cut sound? ( I really should know this by now )
Asking the same thing in a different way most likely, but.. So anything not within the numbers listed are solid state? Anything that comes after? For example, if I have a -4N/ -4N of " A Hard Days Night "mono lp or perhaps a -3/-3 of " Rubber Soul" stereo. Then it isnt tube? Anything that came after the matrices listed in post 14 and 20 are solid state?
With The Beatles in mono went through lots of masters in 1964. I have -7N pressings that are clearly from the mid '60's. Rubber Soul ended up as a -4 in mono rather quickly.
It depends when it was cut. There's no specific date, but sometime in 1969 seems to be when solid state cuttings started to appear. I've also seen late '68 mentioned—perhaps here, I don't remember. So it would seem that all mono matrices—except perhaps some used for the 1982 re-issues—should be tube cuts. There might also be a few Y&B mono pressings that came out in 1969 using solid state re-cuts, but I really couldn't say. For the stereo pressings it depends. The -3/-3 stereo Rubber Soul was also issued on Y&B labels in 1965, so that's tube cut. For the others, I think we had a list somewhere. Most, if not all, would be solid state. Certainly any re-cut pressed on any variation of the 2-box label up to the mid-80s would be solid state.
Thanks Ben! That's the info I was looking for. Concerning Revolver, isn't the -1 stamper # on side two (XEX 606-1), found only on the brief 'true' first pressing with the different mix of "Tomorrow Never Knows"? (known as "remix 11")
