The Beach Boys original SMiLE to be released on CD and vinyl LP..(la huitième partie)

Thanks for the links, that's me out then, I'm not paying £130 for the box (nor £17.99 for the 2CD, I'll get that cheaper elsewhere).

 

If the aim is to create something new and different, then why seek to replicate BWPS to the letter? I agree that there's really no baseline to start with and I've never gone with the 'just use the back cover listing' argument either--that leaves out too much great music and includes problematic, fragmentary tracks like IIGS. It's a conundrum, to be sure, but what a wonderful conundrum to be having, right?

I'm all for Good Vibrations alternate versions and outtakes, but since this is supposed to be the official version for novices, some of whom might not even have the original single (gasp!), I think it would have been wiser to go with that for this sequence.

 

Even if Smile had been completed and released in 1967, I don't think the inclusion of an alternate Good Vibrations mix would necessarily be unheard of. The Beach Boys had alternate versions of songs on albums and singles before this (ie Be True to Your School, and Help Me Rhonda). Yes, I know those were re-recorded as singles after the album versions but that doesn't change the point. Especially since Smile could have been released many months later after the Good Vibrations single, following further single releases, I can see Brian wanting to re-produce the older track to fit in with the new album. I'm not saying it definitely would have been done, but it's not outside the scope of possibility. Good Vibrations was a massive hit, but I believe Smile was supposed to be more about the new songs than Good Vibrations. They probably thought its popularity would be topped (or at least matched) by Heroes & Villains anyway.

 

That quote from Mark nails it.

For decades...no one who tried to assemble the SMiLE puzzle was allowed the luxury of removing that fundamental rule. It wasn't step one -- it was the whole damn puzzle. The only directions that fell out of the box when you opened up game.

SMiLE Directions: Fit all this awesome music into a 2-sided LP. Enjoy!

I love BWPS...it's nearly perfect. It leaves out some awesome fragments -- as did the final mix of GV -- but it works. Mine never worked.

 

£11.99 over at play

http://www.play.com/Music/CD/4-/235...0&searchstring=smile+sessions&urlrefer=search

 

Thanks for the heads up! You just saved me about $20. Now I have two horses in the race and we'll see who can drop their price the most between now and 11/1/11.

 

In my heart and soul, I probably agree with you. To play devil's advocate though, the new sequence of GV *is* based on an officially sanctioned sequence, in fact the only officially sanctioned GV to be included in an album that Brian officially sanctioned as Smile. I know, I know.

 

Once this is out...I wonder what might follow? Documentary, live show(s). I'd like them to re-release the Beautiful Dreamer on Blu-Ray...or make something new that includes the Beach Boys.

 

Thanks for all of your work! Do you think it's possible that the 2CD GV at 8:20 is just a compilation of several of the GV tracks on Disk 5? What bothers me is the 2CD "Cabin Essence" at 5:19. There does not appear to be any equivalent in the box set, and "Cabin Essence" is my favorite SMiLE track, so I may have to spring for this 2CD set any way. Maybe I will, just to conveniently get H&V 1/2 in digital format.

 

Well, just from hearing H&V and Good Vibrations, and looking at track timings and such, this does not appear to be what they've done. There are, it seems, plenty of differences -- Great Shape moved up next to Barnyard (where, IMO, it belongs), longer Vegetables, different endings to tracks, etc. I think what they were more aiming for was a listenable album, and diverged from Brian's version in places where they thought it was aesthetically justified.

It's basically a super-pumped-up version of what Mark was shooting for in '88, if you've seen his track listing, and kind of what BWPS was in the first place -- take the key songs, leave nothing important out (Look and Holidays, for example, which aren't on the back cover listing), give it a listenable flow, make it work as an album.

Do I think its necessarily historically accurate? It's super hard to say. Because it's hard to say how historically accurate BWPS was. I mean, we KNOW that Smile would have been 1 LP instead of 1 1/2. That much is probably certain. So this is longer.

But in terms of how things fit together -- we simply do not and CAN not know how much involvement Brian had in BWPS, and how much he relied on memory vs. his modern interpretations on how this stuff sounded good. One school of thought has Darian doing the entire thing -- I do not believe this *at all*. One school of thought has *every new item*, from the placement of songs to new melodies, being modern in origin. I don't believe this either. I think we have a combination of things -- Brian remembering things, Darian suggesting things, Brian coming up with new ways to fit things together.

But there's certainly a chance that some things -- like the placement of Wonderful/Look which fits together so marvelously its hard to believe that at least at ONE point he didn't consider it, or the lineup of H&V, or whatever -- might have been vintage. And since that's really the only actual incident of the creator of the album sitting down and trying to piece this album together, it makes sense to me to go with it, at least for the sake of the creator's approval of the project and to sort of answer the question of sequence by not answering it, you know?

I have a lotta friends who believe otherwise. That they should either a) have attempted a lineup that followed the back cover listing *exactly* or at least was a proper 60s album length, or b) not attempted anything AT ALL and just put out 6 CDs of tiny fragments, partial mix attempts -- basically a tape dump of whatever they had.

I can understand why they didn't do a) -- becuase there's no way anybody would have agreed on what a) is. We have the back cover listing, but it raises so many damn questions -- what's "The Elements?" what's "Great Shape?" -- that it really tells us nothing except that there were, at one point, twelve songs considered for the album. There's still an assload of guesswork involved in putting together THAT version of the album, and no way everybody would have agreed that their guesswork on, say, how to end "Wonderful" or how to sequence "Vega-Tables" and "H&V" was right.

And as I said before, b) is just not commercially viable and, apart from a few purists, probably not even a very good listen. I mean, I've spent hundreds of thousands of hours poring over CD after CD of Smile sessions in fragmentary form, and the notion of sitting down with a finally-released Smile and having it just be *that* kind of makes my head swim. I don't want that, and I'm a guy who is the kind of person THAT kind of release was MADE for.

And as I said before, track lineup is a bloody *red herring*. For years, I believed that if we'd only stumble on Brian's actual sequence for the album, it would magically come together as this perfect album that WORKS (possibly with a "BLINNNNGG" sound effect as it finally came together). I just don't think that's true anymore. I don't think there's like ONE PERFECT WAY this album works -- I think as long as you hit the key stuff, and it's in an order that's listenable, you've basically got Smile, or as near as dammit anyway. There IS no perfect order because there IS NO ORDER.

I say: as long as it works, and sounds good, I'm satisfied. So far, I have no reason to believe it won't be listenable and sonically pretty damn good.

 

This is exactly it, I guess, and well put.

(Though I think I have a personal 2-sided version that works very well -- but that, of course, is just me being arrogant!!)

 

AFAIK, the GV and Cabinessence tracks on CD2 of the smaller set are both "session highlights" tracks, and all the material is likely to be contained in the box, just spread out. We won't know for sure until we A/B them, though.

As you know, H&V 1&2 are only exclusive to the 2 cd set digitally. The box still has these on vinyl.

So it's quite possible that the box has everything, with just some minor format differences.

 

A great summation from a true Smile scholar. Thanks for that! I hope that the accompanying booklet addresses the compilers' overall approach to CD 1, why they deviated from BWPS when they did, etc...

 

I really want to know more about this two part H&V on the two disc set. Is this taken from a vintage Brian edit or is it more of an extrapolation? The length of the first part is close to that of the alternate Cantina version, but about ten seconds longer. Is part 2 more like a condensed version of the "sections" we all know or something else entirely? Does anyone have the skinny on this?

Since it looks like this is the only true exclusive here, I'm not sure if I really need to get the two disc set, but a part of me wants to be there at the record store on 11/1 to fly the flag. Since I got such a bargain on the full box, I guess it wouldn't kill me to buy this too. I really wonder how Smile will do on the charts. . .

 

Great post and I'm with you on most of it. I don't mean to be kvetching too much, but hey, it wouldn't be Smile if we didn't break it all down, discuss and speculate to the nth degree. As you say, there is no magic formula. I'm just glad this day is approaching, as we all are.

 

I do not know for SURE, but I'd bet you a donut that "part 2" is like a condensed version of the "sections." Because honest to God, I think that's what Brian was shooting for. We've got one contemporary Brian edit where he's taken three of the four versions of the major-key "H&V chorus" and strung them together. So the notion of multiple versions of that (plus an ending of some kind) being "part 2" is, I think, accurate. I'm curious what constitutes "part 1," then, if not the "cantina" version.

 

Thanks. You know, now that you mention it...I always kind of liked the all mono, 12 track as-sequenced-on-the-back-of-the-original-cover version. It certainly doesn't "hold together" like BWPS or anything...but it kind of boiled off all the mystique, pomp, etc. and made it "regular" album of interesting songs.

I may have to dig that up....

 

It probably would have *been* a regular album of interesting songs, if it had been released at the end of '66 as planned, and it definitely works as that, too.

 

How many/which songs were mixed in 1966-67? Do we know if any of these mixes were marked "master" in any way?

 

What we have are a number of partial rough mixes of things. That's it. There are, apart from MAYBE "Fire" which is probably part of something else, and "Old Master Painter," and "Prayer," only partial rough mixes of all the other major songs on Smile.

H&V: We have a number of partial mixes plus the "Cantina" version and single version.

Cabinessence: We have verse vocal-less partial mixes that constitute one each run through of the sections (one verse, one chorus, one tag)

Do You Like Worms: A number of partial mixes exist -- none of them the "final" mixdown. We also have, separate from the mix, the "bicycle rider" section with vocals. And there's clearly a mix of the verse section with backing vocals, as a part of that appears on the GV box set version, but is it separate from the rest of the song or part of it? I don't know.

Barnyard: We have a mix of what was likely just a section of another song. Not sure if it's Brian's or Mark's from '88. All our versions source from a cassette tape of Mark's '88 rough mixes.

Wonderful: We have a "final" mix that trails off at the end -- who knows whether a tag would have been added or whether it would have been joined to another section.

Look: Honestly, don't know -- certainly no final mix exists, and I think any mix we DO have comes from either the SOT set or Mark in '88.

Child: We have a 3+ minute mix of Brian's which contains NO VOCALS.

Surf's Up: We have the piano/vocal version finished and an instrumental of the first part.

I Wanna Be Around / Workshop: we have an edit of Friday Night/ IWBA, but I'm pretty sure not a mix.

Holidays: I'm not sure whether the mix we have is Mark's or Brian's.

Wind Chimes: the version on the box set is NOT a Brian mix -- it's Mark's. The Brian mix we have is likely not final -- it has a countdown between the verse and the "big section."

Fire: We have a mono mixdown with sound effects.

Dada: I believe the edit and mix we're used to hearing is Mark's from '88.

Good Vibrations: obv. we have the single mix.

So we don't have so many contemporary mixes as you'd think. Certainly none we know *for absolutely certain* are final.

 

Thank you, Sean, for doing that.

 

Awesome summary Jon, thanks. I'm printing this off and including it with my SMiLE box as a "snapshot" of what we know "final-mix-wise"...prior to Nov 1st 2011.

 

"H&V" pts. 1 & 2. Consider. If Mark & Alan had unearthed this master, it wouldn't have been confined to a vinyl 45 and the 2CD set, plus the official statements recently would trumpeted it. Aside from a completed "Elements", that's the Big One. I'm betting pt. 2 isn't anything we've not already heard, albeit in fragments.

 

I should add the disclaimer that Andrew has been adding, that the leak of the cassette in '88 was absolutely no fault of Mark's!! Those were meant to represent a "work in progress" and as such, many of THOSE mixes which we've been sort of taking as final were just rough attempts.

 

Thanks. That's kinda what I thought.