NARAS Surround Conference

Hi everyone. Just got back from the NARAS surround conference. Elliot Schiener, Phil Ramone, Ed Cherney, George Massenberg, Bob Ludwig, Chuck Ainley, BT and a few others I've forgotten were talking up the merits of surround music and technology. I wish it had consisted of more than prepared statements that were only as deep as a brochure from a stereo store.

There were a few interesting things said that I thought you guys would like to hear. First was George Massenberg's comments on the format wars. He said DVD-A and SACD will not be victorious and DVD-V has already been the chosen format. He's right but I guess I've never looked at it like that before. He mentioned the public has already chosen the winner and it's video + audio content. He said the DVD of Paul McCartney's live album out sold the redbook CD. People want video content with their audio.

Then someone asked about future releases and everyone turned to Elliot Schiener. He reluctantly told the story of a recent Eric Clapton project he worked on. He was hired to remix Layla and 461 Ocean Boulevard. He opened the tape boxes and on the track sheets Tom Dowd had written the EQ setting for every track along with other mix notes. He set his console up so it emulated the original mix exactly and continued to do a 5.1 mix. After he finished mixing both albums he went for final approval he was told to make things more modern sounding and asked him to do such sins as tune the vocals, slide guitar parts back into time and create a more hefty mix than the original. He said that's just not something he would allow himself to do and the project was given to someone else.

One final thing, I finally got to meet one of my original influences, Phil Ramone. He's somewhat responsible for me wanting to be an engineer. I doubt I went a day without hearing an entire Billy Joel album from the ages of 10 to 17. Very important stuff for my early ear training. I guess that's why I mix the drums so loud now. Please see self promoting picture below.

 

Good grief! These formats are looking bad now. This is really sad news. Thanks Jamie.

 

This has been my opinion all along, as expressed in my Joel's Wish List: DVD replace CD thread. The DVD players are out there and the record companies have already started the trend by packaging DVDs with CDs. The salesman at HMV here with whom I debated remixing readliy agreed with me that DVDs HAVE to replace CDs, or else the industry will continue to decline.

 

This is totally nuts. Why would a label request this? More modern? Why don't they add electronic effects, extra bass lines, re-pitch it and then release it as a remix to Top 40 radio while they are at it. These folks need to understand the important of historical preservation. A performance preserved on tape is a snapshot in time to be treasured as an artististic experience, not something to be digitally manipulated and then ultimately lost for the ages....rant over.

Jamie, nice photo!

Bob

 

Thanks for the report Jamie!

It is very disheartening to read of the Layla remix Any ideas on whose hands it will fall into? I don't want a more "modern-sounding" Layla. I suppose I'll have to listen to my Mofi that much more

 

They could improve the smile on the Mona Lisa in order to get more tourists, or remix the Beatles Help! and Rubber Soul....Oh...wait a minute.......

 

This was Elliot's main argument. He said these were classic records whose fans know every nuance of every song and changing it would not only upset the true fans but go a long way in erasing history.

 

Elliot is correct!

Bob

 

They couldn't say. Elliot's only comment was the new mixes sound great but have nothing to do with the original intent of the artist or producer. Ed Cherney chimed in and said any remixer that doesn't try to follow the intent of the artists or producers should be slapped repeatedly. Guess that means David Tickle (Police, Sheryl Crow 5.1 mixes and the guy that did Yes Fragile).

Ed played the stereo mix of a Wall Flowers tune (which he didn't do) and then the 5.1 mix he did. Sounded amazingly similar, very good mix.

 

Forgot to mention the two best sounding 5.1 recordings of the night. Everyone got to play a few mixes but Bob Ludwig brought a couple that got applause. The first was a recording Tom Jung did with 5 mics (one for each channel) of a jazz trio(?). The sweet spot was everywhere! Really, no matter where you were sitting you could easily hear all channels and the space they created.

Next track he played was from Roxy Music's Avalon. He called it the first SACD masterpiece. Bob Clearmountain mixed it and for some reason it was a lot better than the other things that were played.

Elliot Schiener played a track (Do You Realize) from Yoshimi which was also brilliant. He said he had the mix finished when Wayne came in and said he wanted the mix to spin around. Elliot was working on an analog console so he had to figure out a way t make things spin. I'm still trying to figure out what he did.

 

BTW, I heard the new Talking Heads 5.1 mixes. Excellent sounding! I don'tt even like them and I want to get it when it comes out this summer. If they sell well they will release two more in the fall. Great kick drum sound.

 

That's a great post. Do you know title/release information for that jazz title?

Also, is the Avalon mix you refer to the same as the 5.1 SACD available now?

 

I can't recall the name of the group but I'm sure Tom hasn't done too many of those 5 mic recordings. i'll check on it.

The Avalon mix was played from SACD.

 

(Tongue placed firmly in cheek)

Per your request, I've remastered the Mona Lisa. I attempted to make her more modern by having her hold a cool Fender strat. There's this magenta artifact I could't remove, but I think it's worth the price to get the cool axe in the painting. I also boosted the contrast so the blacks are really black now. You can't really see the background details in the painting anymore, but nobody really cares about that stuff anyway right. Mona Lisa rocks now! P.S. During the restoration, I accidentally erased the original painting... so if you want me to make any changes, we need to start with the latest version. Let me know what you think.

 

Jamie, thanks for all the info.

I just spent the last few hours playing surround music. Tommy .....and The Captain and Me.
When done right, like these 2, 5.1 music can be spectacular. It looks like the labels wanna ruin hi rez like they ruined redbook cd's.

 

I was disappointed with the Who's "My Generation" SACD - My initial impression was they were trying to make them sound like Nirvana, or something. It was spiffy, sure, but...

 

Magenta artifact? It looks like the obligatory laser beam.

 

Nicely stated! Can I vote for you next November?

 

One last thing I forgot to mention, someone asked if it was possible to make a convincing surround mix from a stereo source. Bob Ludwig said he was, in his own words, "pressured" to do that on the Police DVD and SACD but said it sounds wrong and he shouldn't have been forced to do it. He made the label agree to have it clearly stated on the outside of the packaging those tracks were processed into 5.1 from stereo.

Ed Cherney and Phil Ramone said passing off synthesized 5.1 from 2 channel sources is similar to the early CD days when the record companies sourced CD's from copy tapes and nt the first generation masters. He said nobody wants to repeat that fiasco so none of the labels are allowing it. We all applauded.

 

I thought the magenta artifact was digital clicking.

 

Did anyone tell thefolks at SilverLine?

 

I doubt if you would find anyone from Silverline at a professional gathering.

 

Jamie...Any more info on those Talking Head songs/album titles?? Talking Heads have flown under the radar as far as HI-Rez goes. This is the first I heard of a possible release this summer. I would assume it will be DVD-A releases since they are on a Warner sub label.

Thanks
Steve

 

They will be DVD-A.

I'm not familiar with any of their stuff except that "You may ask yourself" tune, which is on one of the albums to be released this summer. I'd assume the two most popular will be released first (Stop Making Sense was not one of the titles) and then two more are ready for the fall if these sell well.

The mixes were done at 24/192 inside of Pro Tools , but don't let that scare you, they sounded excellent! I heard several tracks and all of them were tasteful but thankfully non-conservative with the surround use.