Audiophiles don't really want NEUTRAL. Audiophiles don't really like NEUTRAL.

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Steve Hoffman, Nov 6, 2010.

  1. btf1980

    btf1980 Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Sure. This is true. I'm not saying subjective descriptions are bad, to the contrary. It's just that, sometimes I think some people don't even know what they mean with their descriptions, or they have a vague idea of what the words should mean.

    Case in point, B&W speakers. I've read people describe them as dry, boxy, directional, full bodied, analytical, forgiving, not so forgiving, sterile, bass heavy, bass light, bright, dark, shrill, murky etc. They can't be all those things simultaneously! So what's the consensus?
     
  2. chargrove

    chargrove Forum Resident

    Location:
    Fort Worth, TX
    Well...um...I don't know about that in terms of recent releases. :sigh:
     
  3. shokhead

    shokhead Head shok and you still don't what it is. HA!

    Location:
    SoCal, Long Beach
    All this would mean something more if we all had the same hearing.
     
  4. bluesky

    bluesky Senior Member

    Location:
    south florida, usa

    Ortofon 'M20FL Super' carts do sound good, don't they! :righton:

    I loved the sound right out of the box. Even my wife said: "That sounds strong!" That's her word for it anyway, and it does sound strong, powerful, very real. Just a really nice sound. They work. Really great carts.

    I feel very fortunate to have had the chance to purchase one new, NOS.
     
  5. seed_drill

    seed_drill Senior Member

    Location:
    Tryon, NC, USA
    probably subjective, combined with how much of one's hearing one has left.
     
  6. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Depends on what they are being played with and in what room, etc.

    -------------------------------

    Hi-Fi terms are useful in describing what one is hearing, same as in describing food or wine. One has to have a basic vocabulary.

    ------------------------------


    People, you think that haze" and "bloom" are the same thing? I have a funny feeling that most of you have never actually heard "bloom" on a good system. It's the difference between a mere recording and "the passable recreation of a real event in your living room."

    First time I ever heard it on a stereo was in the 1980s. I went home with the feeling that something was missing in my system, heh. Since there wasn't a darn thing I could do about it at the time I just ignored the obvious deficiency in my gear.. Too much bloom of course is not wanted. But none is really not wanted.
     
    TheRealMcCoy and Doctor Fine like this.
  7. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Here is a little test you can do. Get the old Capitol CD: Dean Martin "Capitol Collectors Series". It's a Dino greatest hits. Even if you don't love Dean you should have it for THAT'S AMORE, MEMORIES ARE MADE OF THIS, etc.

    Nonetheless, there is a track on there called ON AN EVENING IN ROMA (first version) that was mixed to stereo from the three track by our friend Ron F. You can find this CD used for just a few bucks. Grab it, great music.

    Now, get to know the song really well. Play it a lot (not hard to do, it's great). Know it? Good, now take it with you and try it out on every stereo playback system you can find. The system that reproduces it with the most spacial cues wins. The following happened to me:

    I had this CD and was going through a phase where it was the only disk that would lower my blood pressure, heh. Once, in my system, I was loaned a special vacuum tube preamp. I switched it in the system and played ON AN EVENING IN ROMA. Having heard it countless times that day I was astounded to all of a sudden hear the song in a new light. I could hear CLEARLY into to the stereo scene, way in. Not just bloom but an entire room full of musicans and singers suddenly came to real life. I could hear the back wall of the studio and the sound bouncing off of it. I could hear the different instruments clearly defined and in their own space for the first time. The sound remained pretty much neutral but, wow, what a difference. I thought I was losing my mind so I switched back to my old tube preamp and BANG, it was all gone. What was left was just a facsimile of a performance. It didn't sound bad, but the cues to tell the brain that this is really happening were missing. When I put the special preamp back in, it all came back. I was no longer listening to a mere recording, I was listening to a passable recreation of the live event. It was amazing. Too bad I didn't have the friggin' $11,000.00 to buy the thing. :cry:

    Nonetheless, I've been trying to recreate that breath of life for years now and have pretty much done it but that first time was like losing my musical virginity. Ya never forget!
     
    lsipes1965 and Doctor Fine like this.
  8. misterdecibel

    misterdecibel Bulbous Also Tapered

    Well we all compare the real world to recorded sound with the same ears.
     
  9. I like what I hear. I hear what I play. I play what I like. Am I an audiophile? Dunno...I'm neutral on the subject.:cheers:
     
  10. rcspkramp

    rcspkramp Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver, WA USA
    They're probably neutral.
     
  11. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member

    Location:
    los angeles
    I usually say "glow" and I wonder if I mean the same thing. It's like the difference between looking at photo on a piece of paper and watching a movie where there is actual light in it. A combination of the sound being realistically placed in three dimensions and having what seems like some kind of life to it. Like it's lit from inside.

    Sheesh, I don't know if that's what you mean or not, but I know it's what I always look for.

    -s
     
  12. Sneaky Pete

    Sneaky Pete Flat the 5 and That’s No Jive

    Location:
    NYC USA
    Yes, Steve once you've heard that it is a real game changer. When it happend to me I remember feeling as if I could have reached out and touched the musicians. It cannot be explained it must be heard.

    For what it is worth I agree many audiophiles just want some kind of hyped up abrasive sound. But they will tell you their system is just ruthlessly revealing, and if it doesn't hurt it must not be accurate.
     
  13. Couldn't agree more. I hear it all over your DCC masterings which are such a joy to listen to but it's not there to the same extent on your AF masterings. Why is that? Not a criticism just an observation. :)
     
  14. pdenny

    pdenny 22-Year SHTV Participation Trophy Recipient

    Location:
    Hawthorne CA
    Have you become middle-aged since the DCC's came out? :D
     
  15. oxia

    oxia Forum Resident

    Steve, now I've got to ask you: what was that special tube preamplifier?

    Cheers!
     
  16. I like mine. I have a Sure V15 type IV with the Jico SAS stylus. If I want harmonics added I do it with tubes:). If I want bumped top I do it with Inductor EQ or bright speakers.
     
  17. High gm tubes?
     
  18. I hate that word "bloom" because it can mean many different things to many different people. Come to think of it, I hate all audio neologisms.
     
  19. misterdecibel

    misterdecibel Bulbous Also Tapered

    There seems to be a difference between components that let you hear how good the rest of your system is, or how good your recordings are, vs components that let you hear how bad the rest of your system is or how bad your recordings are.
     
  20. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Good question.

    I guess starting with some CDs that have been mastered neutral.

    Can you guys recommend some common CD masterings that are good examples of neutral?
     
  21. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    I'd also like to know. :agree:
     
  22. Sneaky Pete

    Sneaky Pete Flat the 5 and That’s No Jive

    Location:
    NYC USA
    A great way to put it. :laugh::agree:
     
  23. True silence is neutral and only silence within noise is true silence. :D
     
  24. TONEPUB

    TONEPUB Senior Member

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    So what you're saying is that three dimensional imaging is your hot button, and you're willing to sacrifice other things to get that part of a recording reproduced.... Everyone seems to have something that is a hot button when it comes to reproduced sound.
     
  25. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    I agree wholeheartedly. I found that when I compared a DCC LP to the same DCC CD with my old shure cart, the LP always sounded duller than the CD. After much info searching to find out why this could be, I discovered that loading was almost certainly the culprit in my system.

    When I perform a similar comparison with my current MC cart, I find that the tonality of the LP and CD are basically the same (with the CD perhaps having very slightly more top end, but a little less "richness").
     

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