Who mastered the Classic Records version of Miles' "Kind of Blue"

I'm getting really confused here. I assumed the Classic copy I have is taken from the same master, just with it vari-speeded up a percent or so to correct pitch on side 3. To be honest I've never actually sat down and compared side one and three, I tend just to play the 'wrong' speed album as it means I can play side 1 and 2 without bothering to change to the second LP. I really am that lazy! Are you implying that side 3 might be taken from a different master tape?

It would not surprise me if the master used was in pretty poor shape. Whilst the record sounds really nice it does sound a little lacking in top-end to me, though as I say I've never had an original 6-eye to compare it to. I've heard a few different CD copies of KoB over the years and there seems to be a judgement call between very noticeable tape hiss and top end vs. less tape hiss and a (to my mind) receding top end. The Classic is heading into the latter territory to my ears. The only copy I have to compare it against is the CD in the excellent big 'Complete Columbia' box-set, and my Classic copy beats that, though is fairly similar tonally (the CD sounds a little smaller and drier), but I do have a better record deck than CD player.

Tony.

 

from "*The Legacy of Columbia Jazz" 20-Bit remaster #CK 64935:

Reissue Produced by Michael Cuscuna
Remix Engineer Mark Wilder
Remixed from the original three-track tapes at Sony Music Studios using a
Presto all-tube, three-track recorder.

"Note: For most Columbia sessions of the fifties and sixties, the music was taped simultaneously on two different machines. At the first Kind of Blue
session, which produced the three songs that appesred on side one of the LP, one of the three-track machines was running slow. As it happens, the master takes used on the LP were pulled from the reels recorded on that machine. As a result, the first three tunes always appeared in sharp pitch until the gold Mastersound edition of this album. Here, we have included the music as the musicians played it (newly remixed), and the only complete alternate take from these historic sessions."

*Includes Bonus Track of "Flamenco Sketches" (Alternate Take)
not on original LP

-------------------------------------------------------------

from the "*5.1 Hybrid Stereo/DSD Mastering" SMEJ #SICP 10083:

CD&SACD 2ch

Reissue Producer Bob Beldon
Remastering Engineers Mark Wilder, Maria Triana, Woody Pornpakoski
Remixed from the original three-track tapes at Sony Music Studios using a
Presto all-tube, three-track recorder.


SACD-Multi

Reissue Produced by Michael Cuscuna
Remix Engineer Mark Wilder
Remixed from the original three-track tapes at Sony Music Studios using a
Presto all-tube, three-track recorder.

*No Bonus Track

 

According to information provided by kt66brooklyn, the 2LP Classic Records, like all other LP/CD/SACD since 1997, used Wilder's remix tape, not the older and original "assembled master" from 1959.

 

Something I'd really like to find out:

Did they really destroy (spliced) the two "primary" session reels to create the stereo mix tape in 1959?

Is it true that now with the original 1959 stereo mix tape "retired", only the safety session tapes survive?

Was this common back in the day?

 

Sergio, this was dealt with above.

Two 3 track tape machines caught the sessions. One was running slow, and that tape was mixed into the original stereo master. I assume that is the spliced and retired tape. The other correct speed session tapes were found and used by Wilder for everything else, as described here.

You may be misunderstanding 'spliced'. It's normal to join tapes together to make a longer tape or change track order. Yes even master tapes. Besides that, the splicing would have been done to the stereo mix master, not the three track session tapes. Remember everyone assumed the session tapes were identical at the time. Remember also that the tracks on KOB were not performed in the order we know them from the recording now. The tracks were edited (by cutting and splicing) on the stereo master.

 

I guess I am a little confused indeed

Sorry for all the questions and thanks for trying to help me

I'm afraid I'm still not completly satisfied

Let's see if I can give another go at fully understanding how this worked:

So, the splicing was done to the stereo tape, not the 3-track session tapes.

To do this, they had to transfer the audio from the 3-track tapes to the stereo tape (downmix through some mixing console, I suppose). Then, to make the final tape with the correct track order, they spliced these stereo tapes and put it together as we know it. The original primary session reels still exist! Is this the way it happened?

Another question... why didn't they mix the stereo tape directly from the 3-track masters. Instead of splicing tape... they couldn't just run the master tapes as needed to get the right track order on the stereo mix tape? Was this not an option? Or maybe a poor option?

 

I'm sure it will be very easy, as soon as I get the terminology right

That's probably the problem I'm having

Sorry guys and thanks again!

 

Thank you so much Steve, I get it now

Indeed all the technical terms were completely "mixed" in my head!

 

To think of all the gems that have been lost....

 

Yep. And I refer to that as "mixing" even if it's only three tracks being mixed.

Ashley Kahn's book states that Irving Townsend, the producer, did this in 1959 at Colombia's 799 7th ave offices. (It may be true that he had an engineer do the actual hand's-on work.) I call this "The Townsend Original Mix".

In 1997 Mark Wilder created a new analogue stereo master. He may have done exactly the same thing as Townsend, not changed any of the track's levels, but simply because he did it over 38 years later I call it the "The Wilder Re-Mix".

I feel calling what Wilder did a re-master, instead of a re-mix, would be more confusing to the average member here - not less so. Please forgive me if I'm wrong in that assumption.

The entire session was saved, at least on one of the three-tracks. No one seems to know what happened to the mono tapes. I've heard the whole thing straight through - talk-back, rude-jokes, false-starts, and all. 41:38 for session one (side one) and 37:10 for session two (side two). That's it, for one of the most famous albums of all time!

I have a first-class needle-drop of a mono white-label-promo six-eye. Really great relaxed sound. And, as you say, what the engineer and producer heard at the time. That's my current go-to copy. And, I'm embarrassed to admit how many copies of this title I have.

 

This is correct.

For the mono they did take the original session tape, splice it together, and use that for cutting the records. So, those original monos were cut directly from fresh first-generation tapes. Sounds incredible!

 

Yep, and I learned that from you. So, thank you for that!

 

Well, six-eye Kind of Blues go for a premium no matter what.

But, yeah, I've never been able to afford a six-eye stereo, but have found the monos fairly priced. The real sleeper is the early 60's two-eye mono. Not sought after so finding a clean copy is easier, but great sound.

 

Ok, I just counted. 12 copies on digital, and 23 copies on vinyl.

Shall I seek professional help?

 

Too late for that, isn't it?




By the way... what vinyl versions do you prefer?

 

Here is a sample of the white-label-promo six-eye mono original pressing:

http://rapidshare.com/files/410482253/KoB-WLP-SE.zip

Comments?

 

Does anybody know the real story of the 2LP Classic? I assume that the original "Wrong Speed" Master and new Remix "Correct Speed" Master were used. Would Bernie VSO the mix? Seems a bit weird.

 

Sounds fantastic! Where are the clicks and pops? I have many vinyl versions of this
album, and none are this quiet.

 

I know that Mr Wilder told us that the only time his stereo correct speed re-mix left his studio was to go to Bernie G. to cut the Classic. (This was before the anniversary release.) Also that the original mix tape was unusable.

He didn't specifically state it, but I assumed from that the only tape Bernie got was the re-mix. His only option would be adjusting the speed.

Anyway, it doesn't sound different enough to be a trashed tape. Honestly I can't tell the difference between the "right" and "wrong" cuts.

 

Me neither, plus my 301 has a speed adjust knob on the front...

Tony.

 

Great thread, thanks for all the info foobar2000 and Steve Hoffman.