Steve's Steely Dan Aja

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Dave, Mar 19, 2004.

  1. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    I don't think anyone knows what the vital clues are. The vital clues were always said to be matrix codes of "DIDX-55 21A1" or a similar last group of characters for Aja and "MCAD 37043 S1E:1" for Katy Lied. No one here has shared anything different.
     
  2. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialistâ„¢ Thread Starter

    Location:
    B.C.
    Fwustwaiting isn't it.
     
  3. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    Vewy, vewy. ;)
     
  4. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    We require a Audio Sherlock Homes, a Colombo, a super stealth Gort to find the evidence for Steve"s Steely Dan mystery !!! Do not adjust your TV set,.... let future posts eventually reveal the evidence (He say"s :) ) !!!
     
  5. Evan L

    Evan L Beatologist

    Location:
    Vermont
    Well, I discovered that mine is the DIDX-55 21A1 version. So, if this isn't Steve's, then another Forum member(who shall go nameless)who told me it was is wrong.

    Boy, it sure would have fooled me,though...

    Evan
     
  6. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialistâ„¢ Thread Starter

    Location:
    B.C.
    Me too...
     
  7. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    Me three. ;)
     
  8. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    What if the factoid about there being only 5,000 copies of the Hoffman version is wrong? Perhaps the Japanese CBS/Sony and JVC pressings look the same on EAC because they were all made from Steve's master. Maybe Nichols' master wasn't used until later. Just a possibility.
     
  9. Goodyear

    Goodyear New Member

    Sorry if I'm misquoting Steve, but didn't he say himself that there is very little difference between his mastering and Nichols' original mastering? If I remember correctly, he said he filled a small hole in one of the midrange frequencies (that isn't on the original Nichols mastering), but otherwise he said both versions are very similar. If we indubitably had Steve's mastering and Nichols' original mastering on hand to A/B, I'm sure Steve's would overall sound a bit better. Personally though, I just don't see how the difference could be night and day.

    I'd love to actually have a copy of Steve's mastering, but I think I'll be satisfied with having Nichols' original mastering. So I think I'll pick up one of those in the meantime. :)

    Also, I'd think that audio A/B programs would be correct. I mean, think about data CDs. If there's one error in reading a piece of data in a program, a file would be corrupt and it's pretty much guaranteed the program will crash. I don't think audio CDs would be any different, provided that the audio data is read correctly. I'm not "uber-knowledgable" in this area, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

    I have to run now, so I'll try to dig up Steve's post later (If someone else doesn't). Again, sorry if this is a misquote, although I'm 99% positive Steve said this in a thread somewhere in the archives.
     
  10. Beattles

    Beattles Senior Member

    Location:
    Florence, SC
    CD format has error correction. There are utilities that will check for Block Error Rate BLER on a disc. I will look for the utility and post a link. Can Steve tell us what info and numbers his copy of AJA has? On other than AJA how can you at least ID one of the Nichols Masters? How do these compare to the new Remasters and the Box/
     
  11. Beattles

    Beattles Senior Member

    Location:
    Florence, SC
  12. Gardo

    Gardo Audio Epistemologist

    Location:
    Virginia
    I don't have the thread to hand, but you're remembering Steve's words pretty accurately. Actually, he said that he filled the Nichols midrange "hole" half-way. He even said what the eq settings were. And he did indeed say that the difference between his and Nichols' first CD masterings were subtle. The SD CDs after the first wave are another matter--and a controversial matter. :)

    Steve, if you're reading this, help us out buddy! If you've got a copy of the Aja and Katy Lied CDs you mastered, tell us what markings/packaging/timings to look for and end our benighted ignorance! :help:
     
  13. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    As I recall, Steve does not have copies of his versions of Aja and Katy Lied. I offered him a CD-R of Aja once, and he declined saying that he was happy with his old LPs and MFSL gold CD.

    I also remember Steve saying that the difference between his master and Nichols' master was subtle. As I recall, he also said that the Nichols version sounded very good.
     
  14. Dob

    Dob New Member

    Location:
    Detroit
    I've heard differences between Japan and USA CDs that supposedly had the exact same mastering.

    I know that (lack of) tape drag is one way to distinguish the SH mastering of Steppenwolf S/T...but I don't recall any mention of tape drag with any version of Aja.
     
  15. Dob

    Dob New Member

    Location:
    Detroit
    Not if you were listening on Altec or Westlake horn monitors! In that case, the Nichols version would sound better.

    Steve's corrective EQ was to compensate somewhat for the frequency response of the Altec horns (on which Aja was mastered, along with some other Steely Dan albums) making the album sound smoother and flatter on speakers that are more "representative" of the typical modern hifi.
     
  16. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    I've never read about tape drag on Aja either.
     
  17. Goodyear

    Goodyear New Member

    Do you mean on which Aja was recorded? Interesting, thanks for the info.

    Having not heard either Steve's mastering or Nichols' original mastering, my opinion probably isn't too valid. Although from what I've gathered from the forum archives, it seems both versions are pretty much the same, save for the the filling in of the midrange "hole" Steve did. I'll probably be happy when I get the original Nichols CD, as I don't think it's worth breaking your neck to get Steve's mastering (unless you're a hardcore Hoffman collector). Of course, if I had the opportunity to purchase Steve's mastering at a decent price, I would. :)

    As far as the original Japanese and US CD pressings, what differences have you heard?
     
  18. Dob

    Dob New Member

    Location:
    Detroit
    I would agree. I have the JVC (commonly accepted to be the Nichols mastering) and the MFSL UD2. I don't particularly like either one (the UD2 is too bright on most tracks, and the Nichols is dull and congested, particularly on "Deacon Blues"), but if forced to choose I'd take the UD2 (haven't heard the UD1). I wouldn't think that the elusive Hoffman would be that much better...plus it's looking more and more like a fool's errand trying to find one.

    I wasn't specifically referring to Aja with that statement...but, in general (though not always), I find that CDs manufactured in Japan sound more "open", with a smoother frequency response and better tonality than their USA counterparts.
     
  19. Goodyear

    Goodyear New Member

    Do you think it's possible that Steve's version wasn't released *at all*? What was the source of information on it being the first 5000 copies made in Japan? If it was Steve, then I'd believe him. If he doesn't own a copy of his own masterings of Katy Lied and Aja, then will we ever know?

    Man, the Hoffman-mastered Aja CD has become quite a legend on this board!

    Also, if there is a difference in sound quality between original Japanese and US CDs, it'd only make sense that they're different masterings (IMHO, of course). It's not like the Japanese sprinkle fairy dust on their CDs when they're made at the plants. :)
     
  20. Dob

    Dob New Member

    Location:
    Detroit
    Someone obviously knows something...

    Not fairy dust...jitter. Go to www.rogernichols.com and look for an article under "EQ index" titled "CDs Give Me The Jitters!".

    If you can figure out what happened to Roger (and many others), I'd appreciate it if you could explain it to me!
     
  21. Goodyear

    Goodyear New Member

    Interesting, thanks for the link. It seems though that if the Japanese and US CDs of a same mastering sound different due to jitter, it can be corrected by making a CD-R (presumably if the CD-R copy is done correctly). Someone correct me here if I'm wrong, but that's what I got from reading the article. Roger did it by making a CD-R of the bad sounding test pressing and it sounded like the original good sounding (reference) CD made at the mastering lab. So presumably, you could make a good CD-R copy of the original US Aja CD and it could sound like the Japanese CD pressing.

    The thing is, I'm still wondering what EXACTLY causes the change in sound during playback. He did say it wouldn't matter on a "$10,000 dollar system" or something to that effect. Perhaps I should read the article again...

    :laugh:
     
  22. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    A friend told me that a friend of his, whom I've never met, has the Hoffman Aja. This same person also woke up in a bathup full of ice once, having had a kidney removed. At least, that's what I was told. :D
     
  23. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    pssssssssssssssssssssssssssstttttttttttttttttt tHe sHaDoW knOwS !!!
     
  24. tone ded freb

    tone ded freb Senior Member

    Location:
    Arizona Snowbowl
    I hereby declare that if the made in Japan/CSR repeating version is not Steve's, then no one has his CD issue, and if anyone can prove me wrong, I will gladly send them my copy . . . of the Beatles "1".
     
  25. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    I'll trump that offer. If anyone can prove me wrong, they can have my Rush Vapor Trails CD. :D
     

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