Genesis - early CD versions thread (Ver. 2)

My France 'Red Swirl' press [Made In France by PMDC] have also target mastering.

 

Jeff,

Is the 1988 Big Artist Series the VJD series already reported?

---

I'm thinking it's time to integrate all the new data. Hopefully, I can pull it all together pretty soon.

 

I skimmed through this thread and didn't find the info, so FWIW I'll post it.
My US Atco (Sanyo) matches the Japanese, not the above quoted US Atco. Same EAC levels and eight tracks.

 

Correct. Either the US Atco pressed by Sanyo or V/C pressed by Sanyo are identical.

It's the WEA Atco that is arguably the worst mastering disaster in the history of Atlantic/Atco, IMO.

 

Don't know if anyone else has posted this yet in the thread, but thought I would put it out there. I have some versions that have a few different details than those listed:

Genesis – Genesis:
V/C Argentina, GEN CD1 : 97.7% - 97.6% - 90.5% - 97.7% - 97.7% - 97.7% - 97.7% - 97.7% - 92.8%

also, my Genesis - We Can't Dance UK GEN CD 3 was actually manufactured in Holland according to the print on the CD (also says UK on the back and "England" on the inner ring of the CD).

 

I thought I had reported it.

Anyway, I can tell you this. I have compared quite a few, and so far ...

BTs (1987) = Big Artists (1988) = VJCPs (1991) for ALL Genesis CDs from Japan.

 

You probably did, but you're dealing with my Swiss Cheese-like memory!

Sorry for being so dense, but does this mean that the Big Artist series has VJD cat. nos.? If so, I will amend the entries on the VJD titles going forward.

 

Yes.

BT: 32VD
BA: VJD
Virgin Japan (1991): VJCP

 

Jeez, when will these guys realise that "England" and "the UK" are not the same thing...!

 

Ta very much!

 

@Black Elk thank you for invitations

I'll check peaks levels today with my new score: Genesis - And Then There Were Three (UK, Blue Face)

Here's are detail:



Details:

• This is not West Germany 'Blue Face' disc
• This issue was released in the U.K
• Insert: Manufactured in the U.K, Dsic: Made in U.K. on the bottom, but not data of manufacturer, Rear insert: dose in have a barcode and there is no data of manufacture
• The disc have a gold-tint non playing surface (label side), but this is not bronzing problem. (P) 1984 Virgin Records LTD, (c) 1978 Charisma Records LTD
• Matrix: 800 059-2 04 # [can be fourth press?]

This disc looks like very early PDO discs, but there is no mentioned 'Made in the UK by PDO' on the center hub.

EAC Log:

Code:

Exact Audio Copy V0.99 prebeta 5 from 4. May 2009

EAC extraction logfile from 17. April 2010, 20:30

Genesis / ...And Then There Were Three...('Blue Face'' Pressing, CDSCD 4010)

Used drive  : TSSTcorpCDDVDW TS-L632N   Adapter: 0  ID: 0

Read mode               : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache      : No
Make use of C2 pointers : No

Read offset correction                      : 6
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : Yes
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : No
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling                                : Not detected, thus appended to previous track

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
Sample format      : 44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo


TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.33 |  5:26.37 |        33    |    24519   
        2  |  5:26.70 |  4:45.63 |     24520    |    45957   
        3  | 10:12.58 |  4:43.62 |     45958    |    67244   
        4  | 14:56.45 |  4:29.50 |     67245    |    87469   
        5  | 19:26.20 |  7:08.00 |     87470    |   119569   
        6  | 26:34.20 |  5:15.00 |    119570    |   143194   
        7  | 31:49.20 |  3:30.00 |    143195    |   158944   
        8  | 35:19.20 |  3:30.00 |    158945    |   174694   
        9  | 38:49.20 |  4:19.50 |    174695    |   194169   
       10  | 43:08.70 |  6:01.25 |    194170    |   221269   
       11  | 49:10.20 |  3:55.55 |    221270    |   238949   


Track  1

     Filename C:\Users\Compaq Notebook\Desktop\TEST\And Then There Were Three [Virgin, Charisma]\01. Genesis - Down and out.wav

     Peak level 92.6 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 6456C620
     Copy OK

Track  2

     Filename C:\Users\Compaq Notebook\Desktop\TEST\And Then There Were Three [Virgin, Charisma]\02. Genesis - Undertow.wav

     Peak level 100.0 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC C0B212F7
     Copy OK

Track  3

     Filename C:\Users\Compaq Notebook\Desktop\TEST\And Then There Were Three [Virgin, Charisma]\03. Genesis - Ballad of big.wav

     Peak level 100.0 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 0D3C8D98
     Copy OK

Track  4

     Filename C:\Users\Compaq Notebook\Desktop\TEST\And Then There Were Three [Virgin, Charisma]\04. Genesis - Snowbound.wav

     Peak level 100.0 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC C540EF0E
     Copy OK

Track  5

     Filename C:\Users\Compaq Notebook\Desktop\TEST\And Then There Were Three [Virgin, Charisma]\05. Genesis - Burning rope.wav

     Peak level 100.0 %
     Track quality 99.9 %
     Copy CRC D6719570
     Copy OK

Track  6

     Filename C:\Users\Compaq Notebook\Desktop\TEST\And Then There Were Three [Virgin, Charisma]\06. Genesis - Deep in the motherlode.wav

     Peak level 100.0 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC F5351794
     Copy OK

Track  7

     Filename C:\Users\Compaq Notebook\Desktop\TEST\And Then There Were Three [Virgin, Charisma]\07. Genesis - Many too many.wav

     Peak level 100.0 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 241722CD
     Copy OK

Track  8

     Filename C:\Users\Compaq Notebook\Desktop\TEST\And Then There Were Three [Virgin, Charisma]\08. Genesis - Scenes from a night's dream.wav

     Peak level 100.0 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 23DE5DE7
     Copy OK

Track  9

     Filename C:\Users\Compaq Notebook\Desktop\TEST\And Then There Were Three [Virgin, Charisma]\09. Genesis - Say it's alright Joe.wav

     Peak level 100.0 %
     Track quality 100 %
     Copy CRC 7965E199
     Copy OK

Track 10

     Filename C:\Users\Compaq Notebook\Desktop\TEST\And Then There Were Three [Virgin, Charisma]\10. Genesis - The lady lies.wav

     Peak level 100.0 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 94FA934D
     Copy OK

Track 11

     Filename C:\Users\Compaq Notebook\Desktop\TEST\And Then There Were Three [Virgin, Charisma]\11. Genesis - Follow you follow me.wav

     Peak level 99.5 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 289AE497
     Copy OK

No errors occurred

End of status report

I am ready to report it that this issue have the same mastering as a 'Target', 'Swirl' and West German 'Blue Face' discs.

 

Thanks for the detailed report. Looks like the insert uses the same "faded" artwork as the later UK version. Any idea why they used that washed-out version of the cover art?

 

There's another early West German release for the S/T-album.:




V/C GEN CD1
Matrix: 814 287-2 01
EAC is identical with the Target,Blue and Red Swirls.

 

@Marc your disc must be also scarse. This is the first time, when i see him with rear insert. I have two 'Nimbus' discs of S/T album. One have 'Mastered by Nimbus' another 'Nimbus England' around matrix number, but both have the same rear insert with no bar-code.
Your rear insert of S/T 'Blue Face' is identical as a 'Nimbus' press for UK markets. 'Nimbus' also dose in have a bar-code and have the same design. Disc have also the same early design but 'Nimbus' is silver. There is one exception on your rear insert: Printed in West Germany (with different font)

Code:

Matrix: 814 287-2 [B]01[/B]

'01' in matrix can be identify as a 1st press

 

You and me both; snagged mine off Ebay last week - delighted with it. Very close to the original vinyl I thought.

 

Can somebody provide details on Version 1 here? I just got the Virgin/Charisma blue face CD (CBRCD 102) and thought I had found it, but it's the target mastering (Version 2). Where exactly will I find Version 1?

 

I have ABACAB and i think this is PDO UK pressing, but there is no PDO mentioned on the center hole, but disc looks like early PDO discs. Check my post here. And the second this is that my disc have 'Target' mastering also, so maybe another Abacab (PDO UK version) exist?

Thats very good quastion

 

In last week i was in couple local CD store and i found Holland pressing of ...And Then There Were Three..., but i am not fully sure about back sleeve. As far as i remamber Holland Virgin Cd's always have it 0 7777 started barcode on the back sleeve. That one dose in have it. Back sleeve is the same as early UK pressing, without barcode.



Rear insert have add 0777 new Virgin catalog number near the top, disc also have this new number, but back sleve is without. This issue probabley came from early 90's, but why is without barcode?
Can anybody have this Holland pressing without barcode? Any confirm?

I was thinking maybe somebody (pre-owner) replace back slevee...I am confused

 

Smooth,

A few possibilities seem likely:

1. your disc is made up of parts from two, or more, discs (not uncommon with used CDs);
2. Virgin used up old print stock (the back cover) when making your disc;
3. someone forgot to add the 0777 code and barcode to the rear artwork before doing a print run.

Strangely, I have a UK-made Nimbus copy WITHOUT 0777 code but WITH barcode, except the barcode reads 5 012984 540125. My disc only has CDSCD 4010 as cat. no. throughout.

 

I did a shootout between 4 ATTWT's tonight: V/C, BT, Target, and the DE.

Listening 1st; then there's this EQ comparison thing I do that a number of you have seen. (I take one CD as the baseline, and subtract that one from the others to show how the EQ is *different* between them all. Doesn't say which one is best, just how they are different. But then combined with the listening ...)

EQ first and then I'll relate that to the listening:



I'll cut to the chase: I do like the V/C the best. (I have a 0777 7 version. "NL" in the matrix code which I assume is for the Netherlands.)

It has the warmest, most balanced sound to me. The reason why I compared these was that on a whim, I picked up the Target cheap, and I was surprised that I didn't like it that much. It's not super bright, but to me, it has a bright sheen that just kept bugging me more and more as I listened to the disc.

I think that's the boost that *all* the discs have at about 3kHz vs the V/C . I thought it was interesting that the one I liked the best was the only one that didn't have this boost. The BT has reversed channels vs the others. I would then presume that the V/C is closest to the vinyl. I can only imagine that that boost was added after the fact to the other CD masterings.

Another interesting tidbit is that the DE didn't seem *that* bad for this one. If you like boosted bass, this is the one for you. I ran all of the versions of Down and Out through that TT offline Dynamic Range program, and I got 12 dB for all of them. At least according to that program, the DE D&O at least isn't compressed or peak limited vs the others.

I do think the Target is the 2nd best mastering. That 3kHz boost is least apparent on this one, and it's nicely balanced by a small boost in the bass. IMO if the three little bears listened to these: other than the V/C, the DE has too much bass, the BT not enough, and the Target is just right.

But I think the V/C is magical because it doesn't have or seem to need any bass boost vs the others because it doesn't have the 3kHz boost the others do.

I do plan to do comparisons like this for them all, just will take a very long time ...

 

Nice analysis, Kevin. Yes, NL in the matrix is indicative of the old EMI Uden plant (it changed hands some years ago).

BTW, did you see PlusMinus' question above about your copy of Abacab?

 

Hi guys,
I am not sure, but i think there is TWO diferent PDO pressings of Genesis album ABACAB.
I am owner of one pressing at the moment. Here's are details:



Disc: have a bit gold-tint label side, but is not bronzed. Manufactured in U.K on it.
Back cover: without barcode and have two logo Virgin and Charisma. There is : Manufactured in the U.K mentioned on the back.
Insert: just TWO pages of booklet. No lyrics, no tracklist on the last page
Matrix: 800044 2 01, disc have TARGET mastering.

The second issue (i don't have it) i think can be this one what @PlusMinus talking about and he want to find. I do not have this pressing, I found this pictures on Internet. This is different pressing in my opinion.

Details:


Disc: have a bit gold-tint label side, manufactured in U.K on it.
Back cover: is the same as My pressing
Insert: 4 pages with lyrics and tracklist on the last page of booklet
Matrix: CBRCD102 124091 01 % Made in U.K by PDO
I don't know much more about this pressing, but i think this is the one what @PlusMinus talking about, and this is later PDO issue in my opinion.

 

Oops, missed that. "Made in U.K. by PDO CBRCD102 124091 01 %" is the matrix code. And the disc has that bronze look that older PDOs get. Has "The Famous Charisma Label" logo in the top left of the jewel case insert. "Manufactured in the UK" bottom right.

Found it randomly at Amazon UK's marketplace. Lucky I guess.

 

Ok, I was not wrong. I must now locate this issue

 

Looking at the photos in Smooth's post #197, there are two differences in the booklets between the two discs shown. Kevin's PDO version has the tracklist printed on the back of the booklet, and also includes printed lyrics. I do not have a V/C version of this title, but I wonder whether this is a means of quickly finding Kevin's disc? Or do other V/C versions have the same artwork?