The Wall - West German Harvest Black Face. cdp 7460368 sonopress and/or japan for europe are the grails imo for cd.
What is pre-emphasis and how do you decode it correctly? This is probably a silly question so please excuse me.
There are threads about this here. Why not do a search? Some CD-players will decode pre-emphasis. A search on wikipedia will produce this.
This is correct. The glitch sounds like another section of the song is dropped in for a few seconds. I should probably listen more closely to be sure that's what it is, but I was so disgusted when I noticed the glitch that I put that CD away forever. Anyway, this alone is enough reason to stay away from the original UK CD of ASoS. And the same mastering is in the Oh By the Way box.
Can one assume the original Capitol US cd has this glitch as well? I used to have it but that was a few brain cells ago. I was gonna grab the used one at my local FYE but I decided to find a used remaster copy on Amazon. I just hope it's a (US) Sax one and not this cruddy EMI Europe version. I just ordered brand new copies of Meddle,ObC and More all for around $8-$10 each and I'll be looking froward to hearing these when they show up. Next up is finding Wish You were Here. I'm leaning more towards the Sax's for now on all of the Floyd stuff unless I happen to run into some of the fav's mentioned in this topic.
Well, I haven't heard the original Capitol CD, but according to Vernon's site it has the same peak levels as the EMI. I think passing it up was a good move. Hope it's the Sax remaster that arrives from Amazon!
Yep, it's a weird one. Never noticed that before - but then I haven't listened to this in, like, forever. At around 2:15 Rog starts whispering, and he pans from left to right. A little past 2:25 the drums, which have been over on the left and diffuse, snap to mono. (This happens on -all- four versions I have; The current US Sax, the Toshiba CP32-5272, the original UK EMI, and the Oh by the Way.) I think they do this so they can start panning the drums left to right also, anyway it's a clumsy edit. Now, just after the drums go mono Rog drifts off to the right again, still whispering the same line. At least on the Sax and the CP32. On the UK EMI and the ObtW (different peaks, same mastering) Rog gets cut off. It does sound like a different mix was spliced in. You can hear it go back to the normal mix at around 2:35. It's not like a dropout, the vocals are just gone. I could live with it, if it were a spectacular mastering. It's not. Definitely too much noise reduction on this one. Muffled. The Sax is what you'd expect, technically fine, but somehow lacking emotion. Fans of 35DP-4 should love CP32-5272. Same extra dose of hiss, same "air". It does appear CP32 is a unique mastering. It went out of print in '94, and was only ever sold in Japan with that cat#. Possibly worth noting that this album was -not- part of the original West German run: http://pinkfloydarchives.com/DGerCDPF.htm This didn't come out until '87 when CDs were being pressed in the UK. It's possible this is a different mastering team. Maybe Abbey Road? When did they start mastering CDs? The WG run has similar hiss levels to the Sax ones. They are not noise-reduced like this one.
WYWH Japan Cat#65560 Anyone on the forums have good experience with the Japanese Pressing (2000-7th issue) of WISH YOU WERE HERE -- cat #65560-- black mechanical handshake cover with silver OBI strip and flames on CD itself....??????? I am getting one soon, and of course, hoping it will satisfy. In short, is this a good pressing?
I wonder: Did you listen to the Black Triangle DSOTM on a computer? Did you not take out the pre-emphasis? If yes to the first and no to the second, then that's why it sounded too trebly. I have the Black Triangle DSOTM and can't imagine anyone thinking it has way too much top-end (at least once the pre-emphasis is removed). It sounds INCREDIBLE.
Now.... European remaster - The Wall - Peak Levels: Disc 1: 97.2 / 87.2 / 95.3 / 97.2 / 93.6 / 93.8 / 47.9 / 57.6 / 97.2 / 97.2 / 93.5 / 97.2 / 28.1 Disc 2: 95.0 / 65.9 / 61.9 / 48.8 / 90.2 / 95.4 / 78.8 / 97.2 / 97.2 / 97.2 / 18.7 / 85.7 / 11.5 US Sax Remaster - The Wall - Peak Levels: Disc 1: 100 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 54.4 / 62.0 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 30.6 Disc 2: 100 / 75.6 / 69.7 / 53.8 / 100 / 100 / 84.2 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 19.4 / 100 / 17.0 Is the European Wall remaster a level shifted Sax remaster? Or is it something else?
It's something else. Most Pink Floyd CDs have a confusing mastering history, but The Wall is one of the worst.
Should be the standard Sax remaster available in the US. On the other-hand, if it has an OBI - and flames. . . .
I did an EQ analysis of that one. It is not simply a level-shifted Sax. But it is very, very, close. Plus, the EQ curve is a lot closer to the Sax then anything else. Much closer then to, say, the original EMI Europe WG ones. Since it first appeared in Europe in 1994, right around the Sax era, my guess is that it is a tweaked version of the Sax. Whether EMI, or Mr Sax himself, did the tweaking I do not know. Several posters here like this version.
OK, here goes nuthin'. -- 1) Original EMI Europe mastering: UK Harvest (Japan) - CDP-7-46036-8 - 1984 US Harvest (Japan) - CDS-7-46036-8 - 1985 D1: 53.0 - 39.0 - 53.5 - 57.2 - 47.0 - 60.9 - 23.8 - 49.4 - 27.7 - 55.9 - 58.2 - 57.6 - 12.0 D2: 42.4 - 36.5 - 23.2 - 20.3 - 66.4 - 44.6 - 35.2 - 45.4 - 55.0 - 43.5 - 47.9 - 35.6 - 7.0 1b) An EQ analysis shows this a level-shifted version of #1. West Germany Harvest - CDP-7-46036/8 - 198? D1: 97.7 - 76.4 - 97.7 - 97.7 - 91.9 - 97.7 - 46.6 - 96.6 - 54.2 - 97.7 - 97.7 - 97.7 - 23.5 D2: 61.3 - 52.7 - 33.6 - 29.4 - 96.0 - 64.5 - 49.8 - 64.1 - 77.7 - 61.4 - 67.6 - 50.3 - 9.9 1c) An EQ analysis shows this a level-shifted version of #1. UK Harvest - CDS-7-46036-8 - 198? D1: 100 - 78.1 - 100 - 100 - 94.1 - 100 - 47.7 - 98.8 - 55.5 - 100 - 100 - 100 - 24.0 D2: 62.7 - 53.9 - 34.4 - 30.1 - 98.2 - 66.0 - 50.9 - 65.6 - 79.5 - 62.8 - 69.2 - 51.5 - 10.2 -- 2) Original Sony Japan mastering: Japan CBS - 50DP-361/62 - 1985 US Columbia (Japan) - C2K 36183 - 198? UK Harvest (Japan) - CDS-7-46036-8 - 198? US Columbia - C2K 36183 - 1987 Japan CBS - 48DP 5007/08 - 1988 D1: 96.8 - 78.7 - 87.4 - 100 - 83.2 - 100 - 48.0 - 60.8 - 100 - 100 - 86.1 - 100 - 25.5 D2: 85.4 - 63.3 - 72.8 - 44.7 - 100 - 94.9 - 72.6 - 100 - 100 - 94.9 - 100 - 79.2 - 15.7 (This one has pre-emphasis) 2b) An EQ analysis shows this a level-shifted version of #2. Canada Columbia - C2K-36183 - 198? D1: 94.6 - 76.9 - 85.4 - 97.7 - 81.3 - 97.7 - 46.9 - 59.5 - 97.7 - 97.7 - 84.2 - 97.7 - 24.9 D2: 83.5 - 61.9 - 71.1 - 43.6 - 97.7 - 92.8 - 71.0 - 97.7 - 97.7 - 92.7 - 97.7 - 77.4 - 15.3 -- 3) Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs - UDCD-2-537 - 1990 D1: 81.9 - 75.4 - 90.4 - 91.0 - 81.3 - 82.9 - 32.2 - 68.4 - 86.5 - 78.7 - 56.7 - 81.6 - 17.2 D2: 70.9 - 55.3 - 44.8 - 47.4 - 51.2 - 81.8 - 58.9 - 75.3 - 77.8 - 91.6 - 100 - 72.9 - 10.1 -- 4) Sax Remaster US Columbia - C2K-68519 - 1997 US Capitol - CDP-7243-8-31243-2-9 - 2000 D1: 100 - 100 - 100 - 100 - 100 - 100 - 54.4 - 62.0 - 100 - 100 - 100 - 100 - 30.6 D2: 100 - 75.6 - 69.7 - 53.8 - 100 - 100 - 84.2 - 100 - 100 - 100 - 19.4 - 100 - 17.0 4b) An EQ analysis shows this a level-shifted version of #4. US - Shine On - 1992 D1: 84.4 - 73.6 - 77.3 - 82.9 - 71.2 - 85.7 - 41.6 - 72.3 - 94.1 - 100 - 77.5 - 100 - 23.1 D2: 72.3 - 55.0 - 47.0 - 41.3 - 86.8 - 87.7 - 65.5 - 88.8 - 91.1 - 100 - 13.4 - 73.9 - 10.2 4c) An EQ analysis shows this a level-shifted version of #4. Eu Shine On - 1992 D1: 83.1 - 73.4 - 77.3 - 82.7 - 77.4 - 86.2 - 40.9 - 70.2 - 93.0 - 97.7 - 76.3 - 97.7 - 22.8 D2: 71.2 - 54.7 - 46.1 - 45.8 - 71.0 - 78.2 - 61.2 - 82.7 - 91.7 - 97.7 - 14.9 - 63.2 - 8.1 4d) An EQ analysis shows this a level-shifted version of #4. Japan Sony - SRCS-8485 - 1998 D1: 100 - 100 - 100 - 100 - 100 - 100 - 54.4 - 62.0 - 100 - 100 - 100 - 100 - 30.6 D2: 100 - 82.9 - 78.8 - 59.8 - 100 - 100 - 94.7 - 100 - 100 - 100 - 22.3 - 100 - 19.1 -- 5) An EQ analysis shows this is very close to, but not identical to, #4. Eu EMI - 7243-8-31243-2-9 - 1994 Japan Toshiba - TOCP-65562/63 - 2000 Japan Toshiba - TOCP-65742/43 - 2001 Japan Toshiba - TOCP-53810/11 - 2006 Oh by the Way - 2007 D1: 97.2 - 87.2 - 95.3 - 97.2 - 93.6 - 93.8 - 47.9 - 57.6 - 97.2 - 97.2 - 93.5 - 97.2 - 28.1 D2: 95.0 - 65.9 - 61.9 - 48.8 - 90.2 - 95.4 - 78.8 - 97.2 - 97.2 - 97.2 - 18.7 - 85.7 - 11.5 --
How about Delicate Sound of Thunder? I just have the old silver-face Columbia (CK 44486). I love the bass solo in "Money" in particular and am wondering if there is a better-sounding version of this 2-disc set. Did Sax re-master it?
Thanks for your extensive analysis! Very interesting. Quite puzzling what is going on and I don't understand the reason for all the level shifts.
Well, if I had to guess they level-shifted them to make them louder. Anyway, almost all of the European Floyd albums are like that. The original Harvest WG/Japan versions were shifted when production moved to the UK, then again when it went to Holland. I chose the original un-shifted versions as "keepers" just on principle. The times I've actually tried to tell them apart I couldn't. That original Harvest Wall is a quiet one. You can see the max peak is only 60.9%. The ReplayGain album value is +5.70 dB. I think that's the quietest album I've ever scanned. In theory it'd be better if it hit closer to 100%. In practice it hits pretty damn hard! Try a sample? http://www.mediafire.com/?zniwzmdoqy4
Excuse my ignorance but how can you tell the Sax mastered versions on Amazon? Particularly of interest to me are: Pipers, Animals and AHM.
I think the Piper Chris recommends is actually the James Guthrie re-master? That one is easy to tell, it's the only three-CD release of this title. http://pinkfloydarchives.com/DUSCDPF.htm#Piper07d For Saucerfull you'll want anything that has copyright dates of 1992 and 1994. Not anything earlier. http://pinkfloydarchives.com/DUSCDPF.htm#SOS94 Also one of the discs that came with the Shine On boxset will get you the same mastering, but then you get crappy artwork.
Not a total threadcap, but a question I know specifically a lot of you would be able to answer: There are a number of members on this forum who hear a difference between the non-CDP and CDP pressings of the non-TO CP35-3017 Dark Side of the Moon. I wouldn't doubt their ears for one minute. However, my question is this: Using a secure ripper such as EAC, if you rip a (a) non-TO/non-CDP Black Triangle DSOTM disc and a (b) non-TO/CDP Black Triangle (or Black Faced Harvest) DSOTM disc. Would the ripped files sound the same? I'm not even factoring in pre-emphasis (I know what it is and how to properly de-emphasize)... but all other variables being equal, would ripping these files take any discrepancy between CDP and non-CDP out of the equation?
Good question. I have a Japanese blackface Harvest matrix CDP 7-46001 2 CP35-3017 20A2. EAC: 39.9 / 43.3 / 70.1 / 55.2 / 72.3 / 44.5 / 53.9 / 54.6 / 61.2 And if I'm reading Vernon's and Foobar's most m'scocious infotainment correctly, this (also) represents the "holy grail" mastering. Non?
