Now that I have many more HDCD cd's what DAC to get for them?

I was looking through my cd's, and I noticed I had more HDCD's than I really knew. I used to have a Musical Fidelity X-DAC which was HDCD capable, but sold it because at that time, I did not have enough cd's (HDCD encoded) to justify keeping it. I also used to have a MSBD Linc DAC IIIbut not with the HDCD module (it's gone to, flet t sound blah). SO I am thinking of adding maybe a Adcom GFD 700 or maybe something else. I like my GFD 600, the 700 has HDCD added. Maybe another option is to run it through a computer to decode the HDCD to higher resolution, and pipr it out to my PS Audio Digital Link III. Any thoughts or suggestions out there?

 

any DAC you like.... HDCD via HDMI audio extraction

options for DAC with integral HDCD decoding are unfortunately quite limited, some examples are Cary 306 SACD Pro (player with HDCD decoding and several DAC inputs, USD 8000), Berkeley alpha DAC (USD 5000) or audio-gd DAC-19MK3 with PMC100 option (~ USD 500). think there are perhaps still a few more in current production.

i have heard the alpha on HDCD, it is an exceptional unit; also the Cary, but purely for HDCD it is only for those with mucho disposable income

i have not personally heard the audio-gd, will possibly be ordering one soon for fun; a set of ears i trust has indicated his happiness with the unit as a bang-for-the-buck HDCD decoding DAC

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there are companies who mod players to add digital audio outputs, sending signal from just before the DACs

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however, don't forget another cost-effective solution allowing you to use any DAC you like:

- use a player / transport which performs HDCD decoding and sends that HDCD-decoded data both to the internal DAC chip *and* to an HDMI output (oppo units ie 980H and BDP-83);

- add an A/V appliance intended to either be /1/ an (HDMI or DVI)-to-(component or RGB) adapter for legacy HDTVs and projectors; /2/ an HDMI switch with audio extraction; or /3/ an HDMI audio extractor / surround decoder. these products have either coax or TOS outputs for digital audio; many limit 2-channel audio to 24/96 but some allow 24/192 (ie you can extract decoded HDCD, as well as 24/96 and 24/192 etc from DVDs and Blu-ray);

- send the extracted 2-channel decoded HDCD (which will almost always be 20/44.1 data packed in a 24/44.1 format) onward to whatever DAC you wish.

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there are now more such adapter or audio extraction units appearing, at various price points, from companies specializing in computer / video / home theatre display interfacing (gefen, atlona, amberey, octava, zektor...) USD150-700.

to provide HDCP handshake required on HDMI, most of these appliances require connection of a downstream HDCP-enabled receiver (display, TV, HDfury)

one very simple option providing extraction of 2-channel 24/96 is HDMI > HDfury2. USD200. (HDfury2 has an audio convenience optical output port. i have seen it working with 2-channel 24/96; am told by manufacturer that it supports 24/192; and the primary chip does indeed support 24/192 extraction. however i've not personally seen one hooked up in a 24/192 audio environment)

another which i've found to me somewhat more stable for audio (and providing confirmed 24/192) is HDMI > atlona HD-570 > HDfury (or HDfury2). great for listening to 24/192 from Blu-ray such as Neil Young Archives.

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also, according to ongoing discussion in PSAudio website forum, the upcoming PSAudio Digital Lens (price tbd, seems USD1500-2000) will extract audio from HDMI inputs.

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extracted 24/192 from an HD-570 into a DAC with excellent jitter handling (such as a weiss or benchmark) provides a really excellent HDCD experience

 

Thanks for all the info

gives a lot to look into and think about.

 

Another alternative is to migrate to computer based audio (Squeezebox etc), ripping all discs with dbPoweramp.

dbPoweramp includes HDCD decoding, producing a higher rez file on your computer. This can then be processed through any DAC that detects the resolution of its data stream. Many DACs can do this. I use a Cambridge DAC Magic for this, and the results are impressive.

 

Naim CD players play HDCD, so I am guessing (though not technically sure) that their new DAC may be a solution. It certainly is well specified, particularly on the connection side, and has the usual high standard build quality.

http://www.naim-audio.com/products/dac.html

 

Get a Rotel RCD 1072 or a RCD 971/990/991. All sound very good and support HDCD.

 

Decoding HDCD in a computer and feeding the digital output to a DAC does not get the full benefit of HDCD decoding. The computer decoding will only take care of the "peak extension" portion of HDCD. Many people here on the Forum seem to forget that most of what HDCD actually does is change the digital filter "on the fly" based upon the signal being decoded.

By analyzing the signal during the encoding process, the HDCD encoder determines whether to use a filter that is optimized in the time domain or frequency domain. The HDCD decoder chip contains both of these filters. The HDCD codes, in the least significant bit, tell the chip which filter to use and when to change filters. (This is an oversimplified explanation, of course.)

A non-HDCD capable DAC does not have the necessary filters and cannot swith between them on the fly.

 

This link mentions Sharc and Blackfin DSP chips. Aren't these Anagram's tricks?

Goran

 

The EAD DSP-7000 Series III is HDCD capable and a top notch DAC. Check Audiogon periodically for one.

 

I'm very happy with the Adcom GDA700 for the money (which was $300 or less, can't quite remember). Not sure you can beat it at the price. But overall I don't care too much about HDCD.

BTW, not all Naim players decode HDCD (not the CDS, the CD1, CD2, CD3, nor the CD5 or CD5i). I'm not sure the new Dac will either.

 

what he said...

 

HDCD isn't related to a dac, dac converts PCM to analog signals... HDCD is a proprietary encoding scheme that is unrelated to PCM conversion. Its a software decode, so it goes earlier in the chain.

 

So the transport takes care of the HDCD decoding?

 

Really? My PS Audio DL Three DAC (orig version - not the new one) visibly and audibly decodes HDCD coming from any of my cd players, via Toslink or RCA digital cables. Built like a tank, too.

 

Yes really. Sometimes they will integrate the software in the dac, it could have just as easily already been done in your cd player... or your computer, etc... Its like dolby pro logic decoders... sometimes they are in the integrated receiver, sometimes they are in the dvd player and output straight to analog etc... where would you put it in the chain?

 

No it does not. The HDCD codes are embedded in the LSB, or least significant bit. That is the last, or 16th bit of the digital word. The LSB is usually where "dither" is placed, so a non-HDCD DAC doesn't even know that it is decoding an HDCD signal.

All a transport has to do to pass HDCD is read the bits from the CD and pass them without doing any sample rate conversion or other processing.

 

Great Thread

So if I were to purchase a Universal player like the Oppo I could upgrade the DAC and it would still decode the HDCD?

I have been using the Pioneer 563A for several years now but with the AF discs now using HDCD I have thought of upgrading and this may be a nice alternative.

 

Oppo makes players that decode HDCD. Let the Oppo decode the HDCD and connect its analog (RCA) output to your integrated ampifier's analog (RCA) L-R inputs.

 

Would the HDCD still be decoded using the Oppo with an external DAC?

 

NO. If you take the digital out of the Oppo and feed it into a DAC the DAC must be capable of decoding HDCD. If the DAC is, then is will be encoded. If the DAC is not the HDCD will not be decoded.

 

Thanks much David. I've been confused by all of this.

 

You're welcone.

 

I own a Berkeley and like it very much. If you have the opportunity you should check it out.

 

in info which follows, recall that oppo can only provide on its outputs what the particular mediatek processor (the player's main chip that includes HDCD decode functionality) will allow... in some scenarios, the various mediatek chips don't allow greater than 16-bit words to be sent to digital outputs (most probably due to system-level implementations which must consider various DRM requirements concerning SPDIF digital outputs)

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also remember that the signal flow inside the oppo is

read CD data > decode HDCD to 20/44.1 > format for outputs > send to outputs and D/A


IIRC, oppo players prior to the BDP-83 always decoded HDCD internally. the resulting 20/44.1 data was sent /1/ to the oppo's own audio D/A converter chips; /2/ packed in a 24-bit word to HDMI output (ie on a DV-980H, so it is possible to extract this hardware-decoded HDCD audio from the DV-980H HDMI output stream); and /3/ truncated to 16-bit (ie 16/44.1) to the SPDIF outputs. this truncation is a property of the mediatek; maybe they simply treated decoded HDCD like decoded DVD-A and applied similar DRM restrictions (ie wordlength limited to 16-bit).

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the BDP-83 with current firmware allows a selection of whether digital outputs and HDMI output will transfer data as LPCM or Bitstream.

If LPCM mode is selected, the oppo player decodes HDCD internally to 20/44.1 and packs it into a 24-bit word for output. that 24/44.1 is sent unaltered to HDMI and internal D/A chips. however, unfortunately it is still truncated to 16 bit on the digital outputs (according to oppo).

If Bitstream mode is selected, the 16/44.1 HDCD-encoded data read from the CD is sent to HDMI and the digital outputs undecoded and therefore unaltered from the CD. so you would use Bitstream mode if you were using the player as a transport and sending data onward to a receiver or DAC which contains an HDCD decoder before the D/A function (ie Rotel and HK receivers, Berkeley alpha and audio-gd DACs, etc).

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so to be complete, refer again to post #2 above: it is possible to use either of the two oppos (BDP-83 and DV-980H) as a "transport which decodes HDCD," and then sends that HDCD-decoded audio data (20/44.1 packed as 24/44.1) out via HDMI where it can be extracted and sent to any DAC, even one with no included HDCD decode functionality before the D/A.

HTH

 

Anyone have any recomendations on a car audio player that decodes HDCD? No, I will not be playing my Audio Fidelity titles in the car, but I will use them to make compilations, and would like the extra benefit of HDCD in the car if possible.