The Band - Music from Big Pink - SACD - Lovely *

Hi Tony, have you tried to contact MFSL?

 

I might pick it up..

 

Not yet, but I think I will.

 

Yeah, I think it's always best to contact the party that the issue is with. We sometimes get the idea in our little world here that it's assumed that the parties responsible are reading our comments. Maybe they are but maybe some are not. It's best to call and write them. That way at least we know for sure that they have heard. Give it a week and if no response write and or call again.

I agree that some explaination and or resolution needs to be given. If they cannot fix it then they need to admit to such. This way people can choose to accept the cd based upon this information or not. Also an explaination will warn those who are considering purchasing and allow them to also choose to buy or not. If no response is then given after contact ... Well, let's give mfsl a call or write and then see what happens.

 

I've emailed them twice and they ignored me.

 

I see. Don't know how many others have but anyone who is bothered by this should.

I wonder how one contacts mofi directly? I am supposing that it would be through Music Direct. I'll give them a call through their ordering 1-800 line and talk to them and see how it goes. I know of one fellow there that is very nice and always answers questions that I have.

 

Just played this SACD, finally.

What a beauty.

 

Noone heard from MoFi/Music Direct regarding the digital tics that are all over this Music from Big Pink disc? Definitely annoying, 'cause this is a great sounding disc. The tics makes it sound more like vinyl though.

I just can't get over how arrogant it is of MusicDirect to ignore all e-mails regarding this error with redbook-layer.

 

I suspect they are hoping the errors will go unnoticed so they do not need to issue a replacement disc, and let the issue die a quiet death. It appears most of the audiophile labels at this point are running razor-thin margins on their products, where any product mishap probably pushes the return to zero. Given the low-volume nature of the current business, I do not expect to see a fix for this issue. It is sad but it is the state of the music industry at the present moment...

 

now i wont be buyng this title then...i was holding out hoping MFSL would fix the problem

 

Music Direct sent me this response:


Thank you for your email. This has been something that has been addressed to us in regards to The Band and our engineers have addressed this issue with several of our customers. Quoting our engineer on this album Shawn Britton in regards to the clicks and pops in the recording to another customer:



“Both Rob LoVerde and I have listened to your disc, and we feel that the tics are not of a digital or replication-induced nature. They are very low level anomalies from the original master tape that would not inhibit Mobile Fidelity from releasing this historic title.



As you are undoubtedly aware, we do not use Sonic Solutions or other noise reduction software for removal of tics or tape hiss as we feel that it generally inhibits the tonality inherent in analog tape.”



So the sounds that you are hearing are not a defect in the disc but sounds from the original master tapes which could not be corrected since we use the original master tapes to remaster these titles.



Thank you for your interest in MOFI.





Best Regards,

MOFI Customer Service



Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab

318 N. Laflin Street

Chicago, IL 60607-1006 USA

312-491-1836

www.mofi.com

 

So how do they explain the complete absence of the noise on the SACD layer then?

 

Good question.

Adam2, you wanna reply to the e-mail they sent and ask them?

If there really isn't any tics on the sacd, that is. I have only heard the redbook layer, so I wouldn't know.

 

After following this thread for a while, and being completely happy with the SACD layer (never listened to the CD layer), I finally got a chance a few minutes ago to put on my headphones and see if I could hear the clicks on the CD layer . . .

I definitely hear them throughout the CD layer. They are subtle to my ears, but definitely there. And then I switched back to the SACD layer and tried to hear them there as well, but generally I could not hear the clicks on the SACD layer.

(A few times, I thought I might have heard a click at approximately the same time location on the SACD layer, but it was so faint that I could not say conclusively whether I was hearing the same click I'd heard on the CD layer, or merely a positive artifact of the improved resolution on the SACD layer, such as a button on a musician's clothing tapping against an instrument or microphone, etc.)

The clicks I heard on the CD layer definitely sound wrong, like they shouldn't be there. And considering that overall the SACD layer demonstrates so much better resolution to my ears, I'm completely baffled that the SACD layer wouldn't make the clicks even more prominent than they are on the CD layer.

Because one thing stuck out for me, beyond hearing the clicks, during my A/B comparisons: the SACD layer sounds way more natural and musical than the CD layer, which sounds quite harsh and flat in comparison. I realize that some of that observation can be attributed to how my Denon universal player plays SACD versus CD, so take that with a grain of salt. (I.e., I'm sure there are some CD players that could blow away my Denon's SACD playback quality, much less the CD playback quality.)

I listened to the first minute or so of most of the tracks, and perhaps the most obvious click came at approximately the 44 second mark of track number 7. On the CD, I heard it very clearly in the right channel, and it distracted from the flow of the music. On the SACD, I tried and tried to hear it, but it only sounded smooth and natural, without even the hint of a click.

Craig.

 

The SACD layer sounds perfect to me as well

 

How does something on the master tape be audible only on the cd layer of their disc, and not the sacd layer, the previous mofi edition or the 2000 capitol disc? there are some low level click like noises on the tape, but they are seperate and apart from the noise on their disc specifically and no other versions.

 

I'm not technically conversant with Red book Mastering but perhaps there is a problem with the low-rez mix that creates digital artifacts that we hear as the notorious clicks. The high-rez SACD layer definitely doesn't have them. This is very puzzling.

 

Thanks for the taking the time to thoroughly compare the sacd and redbook-layer, Craig. Makes you feel cheated by MoFi though, coming up with that ridiculous excuse.

 

Maybe the noise shaping that happens in DSD is helping to hide the clicks.

 

Looks like the only thing that can be done now is to reply to that Music Direct statement clarifying to them that these clicks are not present on any other Redbook issuings, nor the SACD. This is really making me hesitant on purchasing the remainder of The Band releases that are upcoming from MOFI. Hopefully something positive will come out of this.

 

I kind of wondered that too, but I'm not in the business, so I have no idea whether something in the SACD technology could actually hide clicks that are present and audible on the master tape.

It's weird: MFSL's explanation for these clicks on the Redbook CD layer are actually fairly damning of the SACD layer. One way to interpret their explanation is that the Redbook CD layer is closer to the master tapes than the SACD layer, because the SACD obscures/hides certain information, such as clicks. If the SACD technology doesn't allow us to hear the clicks on the master tape, what else are we not hearing that the Redbook CD layer reveals?

And yet . . . the SACD layer sounds so much better to me than the CD layer?? Either my ears are seriously f---ed up, or there's something fishy about MFSL's explanation.

Also, there's this statement (in part) from the insert in MFSL SACDs:

I interpret that as the following path:

master tape --> DSD --> (1) SACD and (2) down-conversion to CD

So if the clicks are on the master tape, then they would be preserved in the DSD before they made to the CD layer, via down-conversion, right? So how could the remaining steps to get from DSD to SACD have obscured/hidden the clicks?

Any mastering engineers in the building with some insight into this process who could help sort out at what point in the process the clicks could possibly have been introduced, such that they'd be audible on the CD layer, but not the SACD layer?

Craig.

 

That was my first thoughts.

 

The MFSL "Cahoots" is just fine, so there's no need to assume other Band titles will have the Big Pink problems.

 

I'm not a mastering engineer but I think you're correct, the high resolution copy of the master tape goes directly to SACD layer, while for the CD layer, the data rate of 2,8Mb/s is down converted to 0,7Mb/s (CD data rate).

 

Thank you!

This is great news, another album to add to the list of near future purchases.