Bob Dylan's "Street Legal" album - Original mix vs. Remix?*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by OldJohnRobertson, Mar 31, 2008.

  1. OldJohnRobertson

    OldJohnRobertson Martyr for Even Less Thread Starter

    Location:
    Fuquay-Varina, NC
    Discuss.

    I've only heard the remix. How does one tell the difference and which mix is superior?
     
  2. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Since you and I never really agree on anything it's pretty silly to respond to this but I feel strongly about this album so here goes.

    It's true, the original mix sucks big time. I have NO idea what the heck they were thinking (or listening on) when they mixed this. That being said, the remix is something I cannot stand. Voice isn't loud enough and the entire remix has that "I want this to sound hip and modern cause I'm a groovy engineer" sound that drives me batty.

    The original (to me) is far better at conveying the EMOTION of the songs than the remix. Clinical is not a word I'd use in the same sentence as Dylan but the SACD remix is just that.

    I'd get the original SONY CD that has the original mix on it. After getting over the shock of the lower-fi sound (right on the master that way), notice how Bob's voice is better balanced with the instruments, etc. and how the entire thing has a synergy that is LACKING in the remix.

    Now, it's been written on my site many times how the remix is so much better, blah, blah, blah and for the first minute you think it is. But after you get over the initial shock of the suddenly tip top sound, you find yourself (at least I do) yearning for the more balanced mix of the original.

    So, you (and 99% of the rest of you) will probably disagree here but for me, the original mix is the way to go on this album. Get the original CD (there must be zillions out there for just a few bucks each, used) and just give it a little treble goose and enjoy the album the way it was meant to be enjoyed. I have both versions and the original CD is the way I play this thing, the SACD was played just once and put away.
     
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  3. MikeP5877

    MikeP5877 V/VIII/MCMLXXVII

    Location:
    OH
    This is one of my all-time favorite albums, by Dylan or anyone...

    I like the overall sound of the remix better, but prefer the original mix, if for no reason other than it's the one I've known and loved most of my life. The remix just doesn't sound "right" to me, though if you're new to the album it should sound just fine.

    Easiest way to tell the difference - The remix of 'Changing of the Guards' has a few extra bars of music after the last verse not found in the original mix.
     
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  4. joelee

    joelee Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Houston


    Like my avatar I've always stood by and held on to the original mix. I have a vinyl promo that I really like also.
     
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  5. Mark

    Mark I Am Gort, Hear Me Roar Staff

    I remember when I first put on the remix, thinking "this kinda stinks, too, and I'm not sure why." Steve, as always, thanks for putting it in perspective. I've always had a soft spot for "Is Your Love in Vain?" and "Changing of the Guards."
     
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  6. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Mark,

    I have CHANGING OF THE GUARD and SENIOR on a British Columbia 45. Talk about bad sound! Yikes, nothing on that single over 5,000 cycles or under 100. However, I wore it out before finally getting the CD.

    It's very hard to do a remix "of the era". Whether we like it or not, our brains progress and modernize so it's very tough to do a retro-mix and have it come off as convincing. Sometimes the old mix is just THE mix, no matter how wacky it is. Of course, I like the 1973 remix of DAYS OF FUTURE PAST so what can I say? It's what one is used to I guess.
     
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  7. stereoptic

    stereoptic Anaglyphic GORT Staff

    Location:
    NY
    For those keeping score at home, the original mix is on the 1986 issue (Columbia CK 35453). Street Legal was remastered and remixed in 1999 (along with Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits and Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits Vol. II).
    From searchingforagem.com:
    The 2003 SACD hybrid is Columbia CH 90338 (USA/Canada); it was then reissued in 2004 as a mid-priced CD (no SACD) Columbia CK 92403 (USA/Canada).
     
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  8. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Didn't realize it was remixed in 1999. I thought it was done for the SACD. Sheet, hope the remix wasn't done by a friend of mine. I'm in the doghouse again...:sigh:
     
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  9. tbone

    tbone Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY US
    Correct me if I am wrong. Aren't there three differnet mixes? the original. the 1999 remix, and another remix for the SACD?
     
  10. Ctiger2

    Ctiger2 Senior Member

    Location:
    US
    I really like this album. When I get a hankering for it I listen to my WLP vinyl I got pretty cheap.
     
  11. zobalob

    zobalob Senior Member

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland.
    I like the clarity of the SACD, but have to agree that the murk, (of the first CD issue), suits it better, and sounds more like the vinyl did. I thought it was just me, that I remembered it that way. Would have been nice to have had both from the get-go.
     
  12. erocky

    erocky Senior Member

    This is weird album in Dylan's catalog. I have to say that the remix is an improvement to my ears. I had the cd in the mid 80s and the songs just sounded so distant to my ears. The remixes were far better. I have to confess though that I have been a huge fan of the Beatles remixes and the Who remixes though.
     
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  13. CardinalFang

    CardinalFang New Member

    Location:
    ....
    I love Street Legal. But I didn't really know it very well until I heard the 1999 CD shortly after it came out.

    Steve mentioned the original mix before, so I tracked down a copy of the 1986 CD. While I understand WHY he prefers the original mix, I usually opt for the remix. Maybe it's because I heard it first... I don't know. But that's what I listen to these days. I had the '86 CD ripped to my FLAC drive and on my iPod, but I finally deleted it and put on the remix (from the SACD). Maybe I'll change my mind someday, but that's where I'm at with Street Legal right now. :shrug:
     
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  14. CardinalFang

    CardinalFang New Member

    Location:
    ....
    The remix was done by Don DeVito.

    I read an interview with him a few years ago, and he said that he only used gear that was available at the time of the recording... can't seem to recall the where that interview appeared though.
     
  15. monewe

    monewe Forum Resident

    Location:
    SCOTLAND
    Possibly is my favourite Dylan album. Can't remember what the original sounded like now. But have to admit liking the remix.
     
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  16. C6H12O6

    C6H12O6 Senior Member

    Location:
    My lab
    Funny I just listened to this again. I never was a fan but I made my own version, removing No Time to Think, Baby Stop Crying and Is Your Love in Vain? Three stinkers in a row. I replaced them with Stop Now and Am I Your Stepchild? for an 8 track, 38 minute album.

    But I'm getting off track. When I made this version, I listened to both the remix and the original. Michael Brauer and Ryan Hewitt did the remix, DeVito just supervised.

    I don't know if it's the mix or the mastering but the remixed edition is bright as hell. Really etched. You need to fix the EQ but even then the sound will be hard no matter what.

    I can't comment on those three songs I hate but the only time the remix won hands down was New Pony. Bob's voice doesn't sound as open as the original mix but the song sounds MIXED. The original mix was complete crap. It didn't sound like it was mixed at all just thrown on the tape.

    For the rest, I prefer the original. I like the additional instrumental bars on Changing of the Guard but that's it. The original mix is more open and natural sounding to me. The remix also mixes out this dissonant guitar note at the beginning of Senor. I always liked that note.

    I would still welcome a remix. It would be great if they used tube equipment because the recording itself needs help. Mansfield said "that stuff sounded marvelous in the room, tons better than Budokan. It really was sort of like Bob Dylan meets Phil Spector in the best way...the instruments sounded full and well-blended." THAT is a mix I'd like to hear.

     
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  17. OldJohnRobertson

    OldJohnRobertson Martyr for Even Less Thread Starter

    Location:
    Fuquay-Varina, NC
    Thanks for all the info. Since I'm anti-remix, I'll definitely take Steve's advice and hunt down an original Columbia CD.
     
  18. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Can we nail down how many times this album was actually remixed?

    In 1989 they would have mixed to digital. Can't imagine them using THAT to make an SACD years later.
     
  19. CardinalFang

    CardinalFang New Member

    Location:
    ....
    Q&A with Michael Brauer:

    http://www.gearslutz.com/board/q-michael-h-brauer/42295-new-mixes-vs-re-mixing-classic-albums.html

    This implies to me that it was newly remixed for SACD. But were they planning SACDs back in 1999?
     
  20. CardinalFang

    CardinalFang New Member

    Location:
    ....
    I think it was remixed in 1999, not 1989.
     
  21. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Oh, sorry. Did they have DSD in 1999? Guess they did..
     
  22. I've heard the version that came out on the Dylan remaster series in 2003, by checking it out of the library. Don't remember hearing anything in it that made me want to replace the original album. If anything, the original sounded more integrated and natural. (I'm going on memory. Might be curious to listen to it again, since some people have found things to like about it.)
    This probably isn't news, but it case anyone here doesn't know. This album was recorded live in the room, complete with foldback PA speakers leaking sound back into the mikes, and recorded out to a mobile truck, in a hasty 5 day run of sessions. Not the best conditions for getting an album with all the spit 'n polish.
     
  23. serge

    serge Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arlington, VA
    this is one of the only cases i prefer the remix. the original is just too muddy for me.
     
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  24. Sean Keane

    Sean Keane Pre-Mono record collector In Memoriam


    I read in a Bob Dylan biography that this album was very hastily recorded as Bob was slated to go on tour right after finishing it up.
     
  25. -Ben

    -Ben Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington DC Area
    I have the original LP and all three digital discs. There's really only two mixes:

    The original 1978 LP credits mastering to Stan Kalina at CBS Recording Studios NY.

    CK35453 - The 1980s CD booklet just reprints the credit from the LP jacket. No specific credit given for the CD mastering.

    CK65974 - The 1999 CD gives the most complete credit for the new remix: Remix engineers were Michael H. Brauer and Ryan Hewitt. Original 24 tracks were transferred and mixed from Radar 2 HD 24 bit. This re-mix was mastered by Greg Calbi at Sterling Sound NYC.

    CH 90338 - The SACD hybrid from 2003 uses the same source that was used for the 1999 CD. Stan Kalina's original credits reappear, but again the result of reproducing the credits from the original LP artwork. CD/SACD stereo mastering: Greg Calbi/Sterling Sound appears in small writting. Total time: 50:24 in both CK65974 and red book layer of CH 90338.
    Conclusion: 1999 CD contains the same mastering as the redbook version of the SACD hybrid.
     

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