AC/DC Remastered

I am very well aware that Dave has his little following here. And that’s fine; after all, for example, we’re all "disciples" of Steve‘s and his extraordinary mastering style as well or we wouldn’t be gathering here, right?

But as such we’re also guests on a very large and popular Internet forum, which is frequented by many, many people. And I’m guessing the populace ranges from your average music geek, like most if us, to professionals in the Biz.

So Dave may be Dave, but misinformation is also still misinformation. When these opinions are stated here disguised as facts, a great many people read them. And some will obviously take them at face value.

I see no reason anyone, including Dave, should be on the receiving end of a free pass to spread false information. I’ve seen others get slammed fairly hard for the exact same thing.

As to some peoples’ "great ears"; to each his own, as I said. But I find it remarkable that those same ears that allege to discern digitally identical pressings from different plants fail to recognize identical masterings, as in the case of Barry’s Back In Black.

Having said that, I've got my personal favorite "ears" here as well

 

Hi Rick,

My experience is a bit different. Starting with exactly the same source (in other words, the CD-R is not simply a copy of the pressing), I believe we have a fair basis for comparison of pressed CDs vs. CD-Rs.

There is variation within each of the media of course (pressings can be great or not so great and CD-R blanks, burners, software and burn speed will alter the results) but going for the best that each can do, here is what I find:

From the same CD master on my hard drive, I sent the files (in DDP format) to the pressing facility and use these files to slow burn a Taiyo Yuden CD-R. Listening shows the CD-R sounds closer to the hard disk original and measuring shows the CD-R to contain fewer errors.

Given a choice, I'd rather listen to slow burned CD-Rs made from the masters, rather than pressings made from the same masters.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

interesting ! and makes sense as well

 

In defense of those who hear differences in pressings from different facilities and confuse this with different masterings, I submit that for astute listeners, this is an indicator of the magitude of sonic difference between pressings.

Without doing a file comparison -or having inside knowledge- there is no way the listener is going to tell by audition alone, what the source of the differences is. They hear the differences and may prefer one pressing over another.

In my experience, this is fair. It has been suggested by others that folks should distinguish between their speculation as to why certain disks sound different and actual knowledge of reasons (such as knowing for certain a different master was used). I think this too is fair.

That said, I've always suggested folks listen for themselves and draw their own conclusions. In my view, blindly accepting anyone's explanation for anything is not a good idea, whether it is audio or anything else in life.

Best regards to all,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Taiyo Yuden is the only way to go. AAA+ media at more than reasonable price. They OEM or used to, some of Verbatim's and Panasonic's media, but reasearch on the individual media ID# should be done before purchasing.

Barry,
Any recommendations on still for sale burners, that are able to go down to 1x or 2x?

Thanks,
Rick

P.S. I still maintain that CDR's are a short term solution of less then 5 years, due to degradation in quality. But I guess if the files are stored as data on another, more permenant medium, like a Hard Drive, DLT, DASDI, Optical Platter, etc, it's not a major concern as a fresh one could easily be made from the source.

 

Hi Rick,

I haven't looked at the burners that are out today, so there may be something new. I know Sonic offers one that will do 1x. I should note that I've heard a few from Matushita that do 4x but still create good sounding disks.

As to CD-R longevity, I still have several I made on the first burner I knew of (in 1990, that was a $15,000 -!- burner using blanks that cost $75 -!-) and all of them still play fine. That's 17 years and still going. I believe the burners and blanks we have today are better so I'm not worried about my CD-Rs. (Also, I made sure I don't leave them in the sun. ;-} )

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Wow 17 years. My earliest are from 1996, when blanks were "only" $15 each. None of them I've kept from that time still work. They have a weird blotching on the play side of all of them. I still have some data disc's that are readable from 1997/1998 but most are plagued with the always dreaded CRC errors, but then again the Sony blank's I used back then really were crap.

I'll float a post on cdfreaks and see if I can get the specs for the sonic drives, or see if I can find models where the CD media table in the firmware is editable. Sure wish my old Yamaha 4x had not died , it did 2x burns great

Best,
Rick

 

Let it go John.
You have a vendetta against Dave...to prove him wrong or demonstrate that he has provided misinformation.......ok. Time to move on. You are correct - do you feel better now?

I think half this forum is about opinions anyway.....so go pick on someone else if you feel the need. Better yet, just let it go. BTW, this is in my opinion, so you don't start attacking me as if these comments were fact.

 

ESSENTIAL AC/DC, a 2-disc set of the Bon Scott years...I'd buy that!

Remastered or not!

 

Aaaww, cut it out. You're embarassing me. Nice of you to say.

 

I just received a 32XD pressing of Back in Black.

I like it a lot, it sounds very nice.

I also have a German Atlantic CD (non-remastered) of Back in Black. These are completely different masterings, and the 32XD is much superior.

I am hearing what Barry has described here:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=2769150&postcount=1

Since some people have some Atlantic CD's which are digitally identical, there must be two different masterings out there on the original Atlantic CD's.

 

Roland,

Can you post the EAC numbers of that 32XD? I thought this was the same mastering as the 20P and the other original pressings. I guess the show ain't over yet on this one!

 

Here you go.

(don't ask me why the levels on the Japanese CD are exactly 87% except for one song - I checked the wav-forms, and there is no limiting or anything like that)

These two masterings are completely different, and I am not referring to more subtle pressing differences here.

 

OH NO This is actually what I feared. Remember I said how did Barry get it so wrong and John said-its all in his post? (post 162 http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=2839758&postcount=162 )

..well my follow up question was going to be "So What was Dave listenning to it on?, and which versions?, because he was adamant that there were only 2 versions which didn't have the "impairment/problem/ aboration"..but obviously Dave can't answer that question so I never posted it.

Very interesting Roland.

 

My best guess at the moment would be:

All versions with the mostly 87% peak values are the same mastering and digitally identical. Some people can here differences between these pressings, others can't.

I am sure there are more versions out there which have a different mastering, like the one I posted the peak levels of. This CD sounds very different from the other version and much inferior in my opinion.

It is quite possible that some people were referring to the differences between these two masterings and others were referring to the differences (or non-differences) between the digitally identical versions. I can see how this can lead to a heated debate in no time at all.

 

I believe that is what you are hearing, but keep in mind that in Barry's post he compared two CD-Rs from two different members (one copied at 12X - I've heard some DCCs copied at 12X and they just didn't make the grade ) to determine if they were his mastering. That is what he was referring to in the post you are linking to. He later comfirmed that he made a mistake and they were both his masterings (and he explained why) and didn't hear the differences he described between the CD-Rs that he mentioned earlier - even I have days when I hear things differently, have come to recognize when this may be happening, and A/B again at a later date - me and Dave blame it on barometric pressure .

I see members posting quotes form the thread, but it is throwing everything out of context unless you read the entire thread.

 

That's weird,huh?

 

Roland
The Japanese 20P2 is the same as the 32XD-here is my EAC log

Track 1
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Darren\Desktop\Track01.wav

Peak level 87.0 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC A7F467A7
Copy OK

Track 2
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Darren\Desktop\Track02.wav

Peak level 87.0 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC EEA843F6
Copy OK

Track 3
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Darren\Desktop\Track03.wav

Peak level 87.0 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC 6FBE241D
Copy OK

Track 4
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Darren\Desktop\Track04.wav

Peak level 87.0 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC 816C7AE0
Copy OK

Track 5
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Darren\Desktop\Track05.wav

Peak level 87.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 3A5D49E0
Copy OK

Track 6
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Darren\Desktop\Track06.wav

Peak level 87.0 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC 8BC6ABDD
Copy OK

Track 7
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Darren\Desktop\Track07.wav

Peak level 89.1 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC 2BBE4ED6
Copy OK

Track 8
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Darren\Desktop\Track08.wav

Peak level 87.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC B99F8D5C
Copy OK

Track 9
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Darren\Desktop\Track09.wav

Peak level 87.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 8BB3B67C
Copy OK

Track 10
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Darren\Desktop\Track10.wav

Peak level 87.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC E6D6C9A9
Copy OK

No errors occured


End of status report

 

Thank you, Darcy
(The voice of reason)

To recap -

It was NEVER disputed that there may or may not be a (secret?) remaster of Back In Black.

However, the claim that the Japanese version was the ONLY pressing with Barry's mastering WAS disputed. I hope the distinction is clear.

And, like Darcy previous mentioned, Barry has since established that the two different CDR's sent to him were in fact the (his) same mastering. So this "news" is pretty much anti-climactic

 

This explains an awful lot. Especially Dave's view. Great work Roland.

Rick

P.S. I have to find a used drive so I can go lower than 12x

 

Ok John, so now we need to set about identifying those which are Barry's and those which had a "secret remaster". Can you offer anything up?

If the Atlantic of Roland's is Made in Germany, are there any Made in USA with the same Peak values?
Are the Catalogue numbers the same? Are there any other Atlantics which have the same time?
Has anyone got a USA version with Barry's mastering?

 

Hello John,

I understand what you wrote.

My main point was, do we know which CD versions some of the other members have listened to when they posted their comments?

No person can claim that he/she listened to ALL different early Back in Black pressings. Maybe some members only ever heard the mastering which is present on my German CD and have based their opinions/posts on that comparision.

Then, in addition to that, some people were talking about the same mastering but different sound due to different pressings (which some people claim to be able to hear and other people don't believe in these differences).

After all, since Barry only compared CD-R's of CD's with the same mastering but from different pressings, he can't make a judgement about how the original pressings sound, only about whether these use the same mastering.

All this can easily add up to a heated debate, I guess.

Who knows, maybe when Dave did his comparison between the 32XD and the regular US Atlantic, maybe his US Atlantic CD had the inferior mastering with the different peak levels.

I belong to the "camp" who can sometimes here a difference between various pressings of digitally identical CD's, but also very often I don't hear such a difference (I also think it is plausible that these differences are/can be eliminated when playing the ripped WAV-files from a comuter).

So far, I have never heard a "digitally identical to the 32XD" US or WG Atlantic CD, so I can't say whether I would be able to hear a difference between the pressings in this case or not.

I am happy for those who own a cheap US Atlantic CD with the same mastering as the 32XD, I'm sure it sounds nice, and if there are any pressing differences, these are usually of a more subtle nature.

 

Darren, I have a USA version that clocks at 41:59 in my CD player. Maybe this one has Barry's mastering? I have a Macintosh so I cannot post EAC peak values, sorry
It's a Columbia House pressing
Catalogue #A2 16018.
Matrix: 3 16018-2 SRC=08 M1257