Shocking comparisons: Sonny Rollins - Way Out West K2 vs. AP SACD vs. HK SACD

Are you pulling our leg or is this truly the case? Is it mere jealousy some have of others or simply the fact that not all human beings can be friends (or at least respect one another)?

 

Re: audio engineer egos...

A former audio teacher of mine named Diego told me of something that happened to him a few months ago. There was some engineer who was visiting the school and he met my teacher and somebody was introducing them to each other. The engineer extended his hand to my teacher for a handshake, and the introducer said "This is Diego, he does post sound..." and the engineer retracted his hand.

I'm lucky enough to be on very good terms with all my film sound engineer friends. We talk shop whenever we get the chance, and we let each other criticize our projects in the interest of improving them. I suppose all this will end when we start pulling in some real cash.

Anyway, as far as Way Out West the important thing about this HK SACD is that I'm able to completely relax and enjoy the music while it's on, and that is something the K2 and the AP SACD did not allow me to do, so I'm happy. I do know that the best version -- your 45's -- are out of my grasp at the moment, and that is something I'm content to just live with... for now.

 

I'd be curious to hear the SACD of this disc (I haven't bought a player -- waited to see who might win the format war, and as expected, there were no real winners) and would love to check out Steve's 45 RPM version. I usually listen to the AP Doug Sax CD for pleasure. The reverb on it seems a little excessive as compared to my original Mono LP, but, I like the less speaker centric presentation it has as compared to the MFSL, AP Grundman, XRCD, and XRCD24 CDs, which all have harder left and right mixes. I have to say the XRCD24 seems to provide the most inner detail and instrumental texture... it may get more time in the transport.

 

It's off topic, but I just want to mention that the recordings were made by the great Roy DuNann! Enough said, I think.

Back to the topic.

 

I am glad I got that part right when I added the info of the SACD to sa-cd.net.

 

Steve,

Just curious. Are there any AP SACD titles that you would recommend? Thanks.

 

Waltz For Debby
Sax Colossus
Way Out West
Art Pepper Meets The Rhythm Section
Sunday At The Village Vanguard
Adderley/Evans - Know What I Mean?
Monk - 5 By 5
Standard Coltrane
Cookin' With The Miles Davis Quintet
Guaraldi - Black Orpheus
Chet Baker - Chet
Evans - Moon Beams

And a bunch of discs by some band called Creedence Clearwater Revival.

 

I've compared the DCC CD and AP SACD of "Saxophone collossus" and "Know what I mean", and for both titles the DCC CD is superior to the hi-rez layer of the AP SACD.

The "Saxophone colossus" SACD has some added reverb that makes it sound more distant.

On "Know what I mean", the cymbals sound more present and detailed on the DCC CD, as if a veil had been removed.

The SACDs sound very good, better than most other CD versions (OJC, XRCD, K2), but not as good as the DCC CDs.

 

The above ones are available on CD in excellent form. I am quite certain that the respective AP SACD's are not better than these.

I would be interested if the remaining titles are the best digital incarnations of these albums.

 

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As far as I know Way Out West was never released as a DCC gold CD. You're probably referring to the AP gold CD.

 

This thread made me go home and listen last night to my "Way Out West" LP and the old "Alternate Takes" LP that has the alternates from that session and the "Contemporay Leaders" session. My "Way Out West" LP is, I believe, a reissue from the early '80's (I can check if anyone is interested). It's in stereo--hard panned left and right--and dry. Sounds very nice! The other LP also sounds very good, but it's different. Stereo again, but the sound is more recessed and it has more bottom. It also sounds a little fuller, but this is, I think, the result of the slight reverb that has been mentioned, which sounds to me is there in this case, but not on the other--I don't know if it's the same reverb, if it's on the tape, or if it was added in the mastering etc.). The whole feel on the alternate takes LP, in any case, is smoother, but a good deal less immediate and dramatic than the starker dry presentation on the other LP. Does anyone know much about the history of the original release and the alternate cuts on LP? I know that the alternates are available on some of the (all of the?) digital reissues. By the way, as a performance, I like the 10 minute alternate version of "I'm and Old Cowhand" better than the originally released version, although both are jazz played at a level that makes comparison odious.

L.

 

Hans, you sure are right. I meant either the silver MFSL or the AP Gold CD. They're both much better than the AP SACD.

 

They both sound great. I agree with your earlier assessment.

 

I have a lot of Sonny on CD, but didn't own Way Out West yet. So based on this thread, I found a used copy of the Gold CD on secondspin yesterday, which shipped out. I am curious to see a) that it actually is the Gold CD and not some other version, and b) if it is the Gold CD, which version it will be.

 

Amen.

 

It may be that your Apollo is better at Red Book than the Denon 2200 is at SACD playback. I never knew how vieled the sound from my Denon 2900 was until I went to a Marantz.

 

Ba-dump.

So then Steve...any AP SACD recommendations besides those mastered by yours truly?

 

I have the Grundman-mastered gold disc - sounds brilliant. I am dismayed to hear that the SACD is inferior. I'll cross it off my list.

 

Bumpity, in case Steve did not see the full list.

 

Interesting. I've been tempted many times into picking some of these up, especially Monk 5 x 5. Guess I'll keep looking.

 

I would hesitate to definitively conclude that a particular cd version is better than a particular sacd version. It could be preferable to your ears or it could be predicated upon your audio equipment. I don't think a b grade cd/sacd player or b grade amp or preamp or speaker can provide the last word on which version is better. I also think that the listening room itself matters too. Personally, I think what matters most is what sounds better for the entire album and not which version may have one or two more glitches.