Led Zeppelin Remasters

You can't jam it out as full volume or the signal will fry your brain. Too compressed.

You can listen to some of them pretty loud, and I agree that by modern standards it's not that out of control, but I just don't think Digiprep did a good job on the Sabbath or Yes catalogs. Some people might be comparing the Sabbath Rhinos to the original WB CDs, and in the case of the first five albums, no wonder they like the Rhinos! The old WB CDs were likely made from production masters, IMO. They sound strangely EQd. But for Sabotage through NSD I don't think you can beat the old WB CDs. For the earlier albums, Castles and Japanese Vertigos are the way to go, IMO.

I also couldn't really care less what it looks like in a wave editor, Max. But I'm just pointing out that the Rhinos are indeed compressed. My problem with them is the actual sound. One of my favorite albums is _Vol. 4_, and the Rhino is just a digital mess, IMO. Ward's kit on "Tomorrow's Dream" sounds like tin cans! Soooo crispy! Ick! The old WB CD is crap, too. The Castle is unbelievable compared to these! Hearing "Tomorrow's Dream" on it is like a revelation! Warm and thick, not crispy and earbleeding!

And the s/t album sounds twice as good on Castle, IMO. Paranoid on Rhino is bassy beyond belief. MoR sounds pretty good. SBS is okay, Sabotage is nowhere near as great as the original WB CD. Haven't really compared TE and NSD but the original WB CD of NSD is already perfect, IMO, and beats the Castle.

I don't mean to bust your chops, man. I remember getting Black Box and seeing some good reviews here and thinking maybe I was all set, but along with those good reviews you can look up in the archive there are plenty of bad, and I really agree with the latter.

Anyway, if you dig it, that's all that counts. And I mean that! Crank away!

 

SH gave them (current Doors cd's) a tacit endorsement.

A buddy who runs a record store heard last week
for the first time the G. Marino 'Houses Of The Holy' cd
and although this store clerk is no audiophile,
he said that his original US vinyl completely stomped the current cd.

I have the vinyl but not the cd and saw no reason to "upgrade".

 

Well that waveform sample looks positively fabulous and dynamic
compared to anything issued recently,
like the 'Born To Run' 30th Anniv. disc, for example.

 

I find that SG drives the signal well into distortion all the time,
the 'Mad Dogs' deluxe set being a prime example.

SG = "Hash city" if you ask me.
He might be the nicest guy in the world but I will not buy ANY cd mastered by him.

 

Ok, let me put it this way. I want some Zeppelin remasters to sound as good as the Doors remasters (I do like these very much too). Is that more agreeable?

 

Any particular track? You're sure the distortion wasn't on the orginal tapes?

Neither the Blind Faith or Eric Clapton DE's are very compressed at all. Slightly louder than the older discs, yes, but still plenty of dynamic range.

 

I do have all the Rainbow remasters of Suha Gur as Japanese CD's (partly mini-LP's). I will be selling them all again. I went back and bought the original Dennis Drake mastered WG Polydor CD's of the first five albums. I like them better than the Suha Gur remasters of Rainbow, although those aren't totally bad.

I quite like the Steve Fallone mastering of some of the Rainbow catalog. He did the single disc compilation "The Very Best Of Rainbow" and the 2-CD compilation "Catch The Rainbow - Anthology". Now these two CD's offer some good remastering, so much better than the Suha Gur remasters, and done about the same time (and most likely using the same tapes).

Roland

 

You've got to be kidding. Look, I know there are many, MANY examples of worse maximizing than this, but how this can be described as "positively fabulous and dynamic" could only be in comparison to pretty brickwalled stuff.

 

It looks a little compressed to me, but there's still plenty of dynamics there.

 

Well, Roland, I have been keeping an eye out for the Drakes, but the Rainbow Rising by Suha Gur sounds damn good to me. Much like what I remember, which was always a bit crispy. Did Drake master flat? I recently compared the Drake of Cream's Wheels Of Fire to the German RSO and unless he had a totally different tape, I have no idea what he was thinking with his EQ choices. But then his version of Goodbye is great! And Live Vol. 2 I have as well. Also great!

 

Well, just to clarify, the point was never to suggest that there were no dynamics.

 

Speaking of "what the heck?!", I just pulled out the original issues of Eric Clapton and 461 to compare them with the DE's.

Ack. The original EC seems to have more of Drake's digital reverb, while 461 has some TERRIBLE noise gating - the hiss totally rises and falls with the volume of the track. Needless to say both DE's smoke the original discs.

 

Actually, you said: "I think the sound you are looking for is remasters that are highly EQd and compressed. That's what Inglot/Hersch did with the Sabbath stuff on Rhino. Many here can't stand that type of sound, but some folks like it. Different strokes...."

Considering that this doesn't appear to be highly compressed, I will just assume that you were over exaggerating somewhat

 

If the Doors remasters that you are speaking of are the DCC's then yes, I definately agree with you.

Hey Barry,

Another question, there are no credits on the first Coda disc. Did you master this, or do you know who did?

Thanks,
Russ

 

Are you serious? I find it hard to beleive that Mr. Drake would ADD digital reverb or use excessive NR (if at all) on his masterings.

I don't have the DE of "Eric Clapton" yet, but I do have both the DE & Drake versions (and SACD) of "461 Ocean Blvd." I've got to compare the Drake & DE of "461", as I find your comments rather interesting, to say the least. Luke, after bashing the Drake version of "Blind Faith", & now these 2 titles, would it be safe to assume that you are not a very big fan of Mr. Drake's work, in general? I welcome your comments, as I beleive that Dennis Drake has done some very fine mastering work, myself.

 

He's admitted to using reverb on this very forum:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=1262911&postcount=57

Some stuff I have of his sounds fine. Layla is good, other than having a few intros clipped. I'm sure some of the other discs I have of his are fine too. Blind Faith isn't *bad*, but I prefer the DE. But for someone so highly regarded here, these are some major problems. *Added reverb*? Noise reduction? If that had been Jon Astley or Peter Mew, everyone would be going bonkers. But in this case it's simply overlooked.

As far as 461 goes, just listen to the tape hiss on a few intros. Motherless Children is a good one. The difference is striking.

 

Thanks, Luke. I will definitely have a listen.

 

It's highly compressed by my standards. Not offensively, but highly. No exaggeration, sorry to report.

 

Jeff,

I think the Suha Gur remaster of Rising is extremely bright compared to the older version. The difference is much bigger than with Rainbow's first album. I can't listen to it very loud.

I like the WG Polydor Dennis Drake version much better than the Suha Gur remaster. I will be getting the first Japanese version very soon, and I am curious to hear how it compares.

The best version I've heard so far of some of the Rising tracks are the Steve Fallone remasters on the two compilations "The Very Best Of Rainbow" (single disc, I have that one) and "Catch The Rainbow - Anthology" (2-CD). The tracks from "Long Live Rock 'n' Roll" also sound best on this compilation (LLRNR sounds also quite bad on the Suha Gur CD, but the original Drake is also not the greatest).

It's all a matter of taste, but Rainbow Rising is one of Suha Gur's weaker mastering jobs in my opinion.

For some reason, the WG Polydor of Rising is not so easy to find anymore these days. It's a popular album, and people seem to hold on to it. It can be found though with some patience.

Hope this helps,
Roland

 

Oh dear, I re-read that first line over again because I couldnt understand it...you know you are too into recordings when you read the word "ADD" as the initials for Analog Digital Digital!

 

Hi Russ,

Sorry to invoke the "I don't remember for sure" clause again. (If I were a politician, you could be sure I was lying. ;-} )

I believe I did do a version of "Coda". I did all of the first Zep CD releases of the original albums except "IV" which was done by Joe Sidore at Warner Brothers in L.A..
I'm pretty sure "Coda" was done from an "EQ'd Limited" copy made during vinyl mastering (same as "In Through The Out Door").

Hope this helps.
Barry
www.barrydiamentaudio.com
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

 

Barry, which version of Physical Grafitti did you master: I have one that has the coughing (made in US) and another made in Japan (for US) that doesn't have the coughing after In the Time of My Dying. They both have different timings on BOTH discs, but sound similar tonally. Both booklets say they were mastered by you. Perhaps a secret remaster you did?

 

IIRC, according to ICE, the two versions...the one without the cough was the first one to appear on CD... were the same digital master except for the restoration of the 'cough' ending on that one track.

 

Hi 22dRow,

I wish I remembered but I'm sorry to say I don't.

If a master tape had incidental sounds, like a cough for instance, I would think that since the tape had been edited and assembled before it got to me (as was the case with the Zeps) that the artist wanted all these sounds. I wouldn't remove anything from a master, so I don't believe I did the cough-less one, regardless of my name on the artwork.

Then again, we're talking about things that are just outside of the reach of my memory. Is it possible I mistakenly removed a cough? I can't say. What I can say is that I've always turned the monitor volume up at the bottom of fades to ensure I got the "last drop" of sound. That's why I think the cough-less one wasn't mine. (Either that or someone thought it necessary to edit a master I'd made, without my knowledge).

By the way, when considering having the volume turned up to hear everything at the bottom of fades, it is a good idea to pre-audition the space between tracks to see how much time one has before the next tune starts. In my earliest days, there were a couple of occasions when a fade was butted against the next track with no space... and the next track started with a loud sound like a snare drum hit. 8-}

Barry
www.barrydiamentaudio.com
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

 

Just realized the original disc I just picked up is from Japan and does not have the cough. Weird. That is part of the song (Plant says, "cough") and not something that would be missed in a fade out?

I'll have to A/B this with a "cough" version.