West German Target CD's question

I just acquired several targets, and now I have some duplicates...at 6 o'clock on the discs, some say "Made in West Germany" and some say "Made in West Germany by Polygram"...and significance to this difference???

 

Bob, have you checked out Ralph's web site. It should answer pretty much all your questions.

http://www.ralphscomiccorner.com/cdjwg2.htm

 

Not really. Have a look at Ralph's list, he notes all known variations:

http://www.ralphscomiccorner.com/cdjwg2.htm

 

For example, is one an earlier pressing? One more collectable than an other???

 

But Ric, it sounds like what Bob is asking are KNOWN variations that Ralph covers on his web site.

 

Basic reason the printing changed from Made in West Germany by PolyGram to Made in West Germany is that PolyGram (record label owned by Philips and minority Siemens) sold the ownership of their CD plant in Hanover, Germany to a new joint venture called PDO: Philips and DuPont Optical (owned by you guessed it Philips and DuPont). PDO then opened new plants in North Carolina, USA; France, and the UK. In addition, they supplied technology to make CDs to SKC in Korea. PDO was dissolved in the early 90s and the plants reverted back to PolyGram, which by then was fully owned by Philips and the CDs were marked "PMDC" - Polygram Music Distribution Co. and the country of mfg. Universal eventually acquired Polygram.

PMDC Germany and PMDC USA were sold off of Universal/PolyGram and are now called Entertainment Distribution Co. (EDC)
PDO UK was acquired by Deluxe UK.
PDO France is now Cinram France.

PDO discs made in USA, Germany, Korea (SKC), and France were solid aluminum centers in the disc clamping area. A few Germany and most UK made discs from the late 80s have solid centers, but not all the way to the hole. Clear plastic near the hole. After that, all the PDO plants went to either a mix of solid centers or to clear centers like most other CD plants. The clear centers usually say: PMDC (country of mfg) or later ones say UNI or UML(country of mfg) until Universal sold off their plants.

Generally, PDO Hanover marked discs are 1986 ~1991. The confusing part is that all the original discs made 1985 and before say they are made by Polygram. Subsequent reissues with PDO markings may also say Polygram for a few years afterwards. So no PDO markings on the inner hub implies the disc was made 1985 or before.

 

so, generally, Made in "West Germany by Polygram" are earlier pressings, right? But sonically, most likely identical, correct???

 

I have never noted sonic differences between Polygram and no-Polygram targets of a particular title.

So, Bob, enough with the suspense. What targets did you find?

 

A friend sold me a stack of about 15 targets today...

I'll be putting the extras here sometime tonight...I think....but my forum friends here will get first shot...

Bob

 

Bob, I would be amazed if they did another mastering, when all they needed to do was change the silk screening. I do know that every one of my made in USA by PDO non-target CD's are the same mastering as their target counterparts. So that would lead me to believe the "Made in West Germany by Polygram", are the same mastering as the "Made in West Germany" discs.

 

Yea, that's what I said. And what you said too at the same time

 

I just noticed we posted at the exact same time.....nevermind

 

Don't quote me, as I could be completely wrong, but as near as I can tell, the very earliest target pressings say MADE IN || WEST GERMANY at the bottom. Notice that the break is between IN & WEST. Soon after, that was replaced by MADE IN WEST || GERMANY BY POLYGRAM. Then, as Rob explained above, there is a transitional period where the POLYGRAM discs can be found with MADE IN W. GERMANY BY PDO, or MADE IN W. GERMANY BY PDO HANOVER etched around the center hole. I believe the HANOVER discs are earlier, but I can't prove it. The last "true" West German target discs say MADE IN WEST || GERMANY (note where the break is!) at the bottom with the PDO inscription around the center hole. Those are followed by the Record Service "Made in Germany" silver stock background target discs, distributed mainly in Europe. Even though these later discs say "Made in Germany" on them, I can document that that wording was used as early as 1986, and possibly earlier. Previously, I had assumed that they were pressed after 1990. Not necessarily true!

As for the significance of all this trainspotting, there is none, except that it helps to date, more or less, when the disc was pressed. In my experience, the POLYGRAM discs are more common, but that is not a hard and fast rule. There are several discs where the MADE IN || WEST GERMANY version is more common. Even though the other variations are generally harder to find, I seem to be the only one who gives more than half a hoot about them. I find collecting the variations is fun, but that feeling does not seem to be shared by most of my fellow target collectors. KeithH has some variations, but even he doesn't seem to be as passionate about them as I am.

I should mention that the target discs with MADE IN W. GERMANY BY PDO etched around the center hole are much more commonly found in Europe, where the target design was used somewhat longer than in the US.

For the most part, there are no sonic differences between the variations. There may be an oddball exception or two.

I have been working on a home page for my target site that will answer most of these questions, but time has been at a premium lately, so it is taking much longer than anticipated. Any input or comments will be appreciated, however.

Regards,
Ralph

 

Great Post Ralph!

 

The Record Service CD plant was originally the TELDEC CD plant that opened in 1985 in Germany. TELDEC (once a joint venture of Telefunken Radio and Decca UK) pioneered cheap CD manufacturing. The figured out the way to stamp discs cheaply and punch the center holes out. TELDEC made CDs for various labels including their own and WEA. WEA acquired TELDEC (and its classical record label) in 1985 or 6. The plant became just Record Service GmBH. Record Service was WEA's LP pressing plant. Over time it became Warner Music Manufacturing Europe or Warner Record Service. Cinram acquired the plant along with WEA Mfg in the USA last year as part of WEA's spin off of manufacturing plants like EMI and Universal have.

WEA Record Service like WEA Mfg in the USA, slowly ramped up production levels and stopped using PDO and others as much. The Record Service lines and the WEA Mfg. lines are similar, hence the discs made look nearly the same. There are a few variations between lines, but with out the IFPI code and country of mfg id, it would hard to tell a WEA disc made in Record Service from one made in the USA.

I have a Bad Company 10 from 6 CD made in Alsdorf in 1987. Bought it new thinking I was getting a Polygram disc with a "Disc made in west germany" sticker on the longbox, but it was an Alsdorf CD with US inserts!