Guitarists
 

My profile lists me as a struggling guitarists and I couldn't hang with any of these guys but for what it's worth:
I recently read where a jazz guy (damn...can't remember who) said that Hendrix was a better musician than guitarist and that worked well for me.
He certainly wrote some amazing songs, put together some fine bands and did some visionary studio stuff.
As for EC he has blown me away from time to time like on some of the Layla era stuff and has bored me to tears at times as well. I remember when 461 Ocean Blvd came out and everyone was like "it's a good album but where's the guitar?" and sure enough on tours in the seventies George Terry (whatever happened to??) took many solos...
Terry Kath: Great tragedy when he died and a hell of a player. Love that live version of South California Purples.
I have seen some amazing players up close. The ones who most impressed me were Buchanan, Danny Gatton, Steve Morse, Tuck Andress (from Tuck and Patti), Metheney and, most recently Jeff Pevar.
These guys are all different types of players and of course Buchanan and Gatton are, like Kath and Hendrix, no longer with us. There's no telling what they might be doing if they were still with us. (BTW: If you have never heard Gatton...run, do not walk and get something of his)
Bottom line for me: It's an interesting concept and I have enjoyed the thread thus far which says a lot cause it easily could rile someone up.
Keep up the good work.
Peace
Norm

Bill blast #1: NONSENSE. He was a great guitarist BEFORE he died.

The greatness of James Marshall Hendrix: the classics:

THE WIND CRIES MARY[from SMASH HITS UK]: Great songwriting, restrained playing. He knew when to hold back.

THIRD STONE FROM THE SUN[Are You Experienced?]: When he finally bursts out after destroying our beloved planet, he goes on the first of his many sonic journeys to strange Sun Ra-like planets and solar systems. He knew how to have fun.

RED HOUSE[from Are You Experienced? UK]: Deep blues; Billy Gibbons and Stevie Ray Vaughan must have liked it...a lot. As steamy as any rock recording of its era, and so blatantly sexual it's no wonder it was dropped from the US version.

ARE YOU EXPERIENCED[from guess where?]: More guitar genius: who knows how he did it. And he took us along for the ride.

WILD THING[from JIMI PLAYS MONTEREY]: Guitar as sacrifice, left the crowd stunned and/or delighted beyond words. Nobody bent notes with the skill and abandon Jimi had.

IF 6 WAS 9[from Axis: Bold As Love]: protest number extraordinaire, with wild, wailing flailing to finish it up. He dared tread where no others had even come close.

LITTLE WING[from Axis: Bold As Love]: Great songwriting, restrained playing up til the end, when he sends her flying away...

ALL ALONG THE WATCHTOWER[from ELECTRIC LADYLAND]: If there is a more clever, exciting single from 1968, I've yet to hear it. And guitar lines that run past the speed of sound. Eddie Van Halen was listening.

STAR-SPANGLED BANNER[from Woodstock]: If I were a Dj, this is what my listeners would get instead of Reveille at 5am every morning. Until I got fired, anyway.

How's that for a START?!?

And now, to Mr. Kath:

25 OR 6 TO 4[from CHICAGO II]: Good, quick, masterly playing. He needed more of these, and so rarely got such a chance to shine.

Sorry, that's all I can come up with for Terry; great skills, but in a band the size of Chicago--coupled with the fact he wrote comparitively few songs--got lost in the brassy, pop-oriented shuffle. Jimi, on the other hand, was a star, a natural showman, could do anything with an axe--who else could play with his teeth or without his fingers?!?; play behind his back or up in the air? Add to that the uniformly exceptional material issued during his lifetime and, well...case closed. In fact, the whole debate becomes pointless in the face of the obvious evidence. Kath was a fine player; Hendrix was a shaker and mover. His legendary status was more than earned long ago; his genius obvious yet intangible. Whatever he had, it was his alone.

ED:cool:

THAT'S ALL YOU CAN COME UP WITH?! Sorry to shout, but I find that incredible.

Here's just a few more brilliant Kath solos to check out, for Ed and other nonbelievers:D :

The solo on "Introduction": builds and builds and builds, with a frenzied, moaning climax. Works its way through a lot of cool changes along the way--lots of chordal complexity here, which makes it harder to do a good bluesy solo.

Oh, and Terry wrote the song, too. In fact, he wrote a lot of Chicago's material. Until Cetera became a big contributor with his ballads, Terry was one of the band's three principal writers, along with Robert Lamm and James Pankow.

Great solo on "South California Purples," too.

You CANNOT omit the solo on "Make Me Smile." I love the solo on "25 or 6 to 4," too, but "Make Me Smile" is the killer solo on II.

Great solo on "In The Country," too.

The solo on "Lowdown" is another mindblower, especially for the wah-wah work. Listen to the way he phrases that solo while playing with the timbres.

Any of the long solos on "Live at Carnegie Hall" are well worth study and emulation.

Lots of great work all over the albums up to VII, but I'll name only two from that album here: the solo in "Aire" takes a lovely, bluesy ramble through a varied musical landscape with some nifty meter changes along the way; and I think the acoustic work in "Byblos" is just wonderful.

You may prefer Hendrix, but be fair!

You're right; I missed quite a few of Jimi's other famous gems:winkgrin: :agree: ;)

Well, actually I spaced "South California Purples"; should have had that one in. The rest are musically inconsequential, though Kath does a great job on all you listed. I just have this hunch "Freedom" is going to be remembered long after "Free" is forgotten(does anybody remember it now?). I always did like "Lowdown"'s smooth, easy groove; great summer song.

ED:cool:

No need to be that drastic. For rocks guitarists of their era, there were very few like Jimi or Terry. I would say that Zappa and Steve Howe were up there also. Clapton pales in comparison...

The solo on Make Me smile is incredible - very jazz like. Nobody was playing rock guitar like this in 1970. Terry may not have been able to take things "way out" like Jimi did, but Jimi never had the melodic fluidity that Terry had and Terry most definitely had as much "soul and feeling" as Jimi - just watch any live performance of him.

Ok, now, we're talking about GUITARISTS here, not groups.

With that in mind, how about:

Derek Leckenby vs. George Harrison (Hermits vs. Beatles), or

Nick Massi vs. George Harrison (Four Seasons vs. Beatles)


Somehow I don't think the above will stir up too much controversy!


Paul

:laugh:

Has anyone ever seen the Jimi Hendrix appearance on Dick Cavett? Dick asked him if he considered himself to be the greatest guitarist around and Jimi said 'Well, I'm the greatest one sitting in this chair'. I always thought and still do that Jimi was a unique stylist. Then I heard players like Pete Cosey, Eddie Hazel, and James 'Blood' Ulmer rock the house. The well is deep. Jimi knew that. Now take a listen to the Charlie Christian box set that came out on Columbia this year. Man, I tell ya'...

Mmm, don't think I mentioned "Free." I remember it, of course, but I wouldn't say it's Chicago at its best. Nor would I say that your blanket dismissal of the tunes I cited is you at your best!:D

Time for a trip to the Argument Clinic.:shake:

Well, JB, I do like Scotty quite a lot, but James had the polish, the style and the finesse. Scotty was more of a basic, backwoods type of rockabilly guitarist, but darn good at what he did. Burton was THE rock and roll guitarist of his time IMO. Man, just listen to his soaring work on Nelson's "Believe What You Say." Don't think Scotty would have dreamed of doing it quite that way.

First of all, I think the real underrated genius of Chicago was James Pankow, not Terry Kath. Pankow's brass arrangements are the best I've ever heard, and it's the main thing that keeps me listening to their music all these years.

That said, the Kath vs. Hendrix comparison is rather odd...I think Terry tried hard to emulate Hendrix (certainly more than Hendrix tried to emulate him). It's kind of like Robin Trower vs. Hendrix...unless the point is that Terry beat Hendrix "at his own game", so to speak.

And the "greatness" of Free Form Guitar is totally lost on me!

Yup Mike, that one is true. In fact Hendrix was so impressed with Gibbons that he gave him a strat that he had used earlier.

I always thought of that one as a third rate Hendrix imitation.

I remember going to a music festival in Michigan in the late 60's.One night it was John Sebastian,Chicago and Ten Years After.Next night it was The James Gang and Jethro Tull.Can't remember who else was there.Oh yeah,where was I?What is the sounding versions of early Chicago.Vinyl or CD.

Both Terry Kath and Jimi Hendrix were great guitarists in their own realm, but the difference is that Jimi was an innovator. He pushed the limits of what could be accomplished with an electric guitar, and changed the way that the electric guitar was perceived. He influenced budding guitarists and accomplished guitarists alike; even Terry Kath's own "Oh, Thank You Great Spirit" from Chicago VIII was inspired by Hendrix. When Jimi first moved to England and played live gigs, the audiences always included the English rock stars of the time, who must have been totally blown away by what they saw and heard, because no one had ever sounded like Jimi before. I can still remember hearing "Are You Experienced" for the first time, and wondering what planet was this guy was from!! Jimi's guitar style was truly innovative and inspired more guitarists than we'll probably ever know. By the way, I do enjoy Terry Kath's excellent guitarwork and also believe that Chicago was never the same after his death.





Ed Hurdle
HeavyDistortion

well worth quoting this entire post.
The first 7 albums (sans Carnegie Hall) are brill.
I saw them in '72 and they knocked my socks off! There was a real tightness and band cohesion, and they ROCKED!
All these years later it may be hard to believe, but it's TRUE!

Paul McCartney has stated many times that he considers Jimi to be the greatest musician he has ever seen. I think this should pretty much settle this, although I DO think Kath was excellent.

It should, but...well, the thread idea was Chicago fans up against, shall we say, conventional wisdom. I think Kath was a fine player, too--"Free Form Guitar" notwithstanding. The problem I have is, he wasn't an innovator or trendsetter; worse, he was in an outfit with superior songwriters(if not musicians)who pretty much took it over. Had he been in a smaller combo, and--better yet--been the true leader of his own band, as Jimi, Alvin Lee, Robin Trower, and eventually Clapton were--he'd be more highly regarded today. That doesn't diminish his talent so much as obscure it: whatever else Chicago will be remembered for, Kath's guitar work won't be at the top of the list. Lamm's vocals and piano, Pankow's songs, the brass section, the jazzier elements--CHICAGO V is still my favorite, even the pop numbers simmer nicely, and it actually hit #1 on Billboard's jazz chart, no small feat. But like the Moody Blues, Chicago's legacy may suffer a bit because they were lightweight just often enough to hide their more rocking inclinations. Make no mistake, I'm a fan, but not to the point where I'll ignore their limitations.
Hendrix is a bonafide 'A-lister'; Chicago is in the B's somewhere, which is nothing bad. It's just reality. And nothing to take personally.

ED :cool:

I liked both Hendrix and Kath, but for my money Hendrix was the man. Now I like Joe Satriani. I saw him live and he could play the electric guitar as well as anyone. Did anyone hear Jason Becker? This kid sounded like Bach reincarnated on the guitar instead of the organ. Too bad he became ill with Lou Gerag's (sp) disease.

Other guitar godz no one has mentioned include Adrian Belew, Robert Fripp, Vernon Reid, Fred Frith, Albert King, Buddy Guy, Andy Mackay, Allan Holdsworth, Jeff Beck...