Sinatra - Jobim Complete Reprise Recordings

I'm not giving any negative comments because a release comes from this party or that. I won't comment on the sq of the new Sinatra/Jobim disk, because I haven't heard it, but I agree with those who are saying that the original edits should have been included (irregardless of whether it was an oversight or if they were left off intentionally). Of course, sound quality is up to a certain extent always subjective - and it's my subjective opinion that the old "Strangers", for instance, sounded better than the new one. Other people may feel differently about it. That's perfectly OK, as long as there's an option for both of us: I'll keep playing my suitcase tracks

I wasn't too happy with Capitol's decision to overdub previously unreleased tracks either. To be honest, for me, it's the worst thing to do. Even the contents of Warner's Sinatra DVD collections left me unimpressed. It's great to have these movies on DVD, but other DVDs by the same studio come with loads of extras. IMHO, the best Sinatra releases of the last decade were the two live box sets, the Hollywood box and the two MoFi/Capitol CDs. Add to that the RCA/Columbia releases supervised by Chuck Granata.

 

The big question is if the suitcase tracks come from the 2 track stereo master to begin with. Maybe we've never heard the original mix on CD at all...

 

Larry, don't be too hard on yourself. I, for one, think that the CAPITOL CD titles that you've done in the past, are easily the ONLY ones that CAPITOL has released "themselves", that are worth owning. As for the CONCORD reissues, my personal request is that you please ease off the volume knob on Frank's lead vocals and try to keep the mixes as close to the original REPRISE LP mixes, as possible. Larry, since you've kindly came here to, "face the music", as it would be, is there ANY chance that you could persuade FSE and CONCORD, to give us the original MONO mixes of "Francis Albert Sinatra & Antonio Carlos Jobim"?

Chris C

 

Seeing that Mr Walsh is reading this thread, I wanted to jump back again just to state that the negativity on this thread does not reflect what all Sinatra fans feel about this project.

I was preety sure we were not going to get original mixes with this release. I kept my "Strangers in the Night" an "My Way" original CDs for the originial mixes. But I listen to the new editions a lot, its nice to get to have these alternate versions for me. As to being the only ones in print for now... the original Jobin album is being re-released next month and last time I checked we lived in a digital download world anyway.

Looking forward to the next project in the series, hopefully "Ring a ding ding"

 

I sat down last night and TRIED to give the '69 tracks an unbiased, new listen. To me, they are almost unlistenable when compared to what we already have. Sorry, but a really bad mix.

 

if ever a title needed a massage, its this one...

 

Yep. Especially when a release represents the second (or third, or fourth) version of a particular session or performance.

Matt's song-by-song analysis of NbtB still lives. I wasn't here or on SFF when NbtB was originally released, but I've found several threads by searching that address the subjective (remixing choices, compression, etc.) and objective (the missing "S" at the start of "Bewitched", the missing cymbal and drum roll in "New York New York") issues from that set.

Well, there is some type of relationship between the family and all the labels via Frank Sinatra Enterprises. FSE LLC is credited for "This Can't Be Love" on Capitol's "Classic Sinatra II" (whose booklet contains new comments from Frank Jr., Nancy, and Tina), and FSE LLC's web store offers products from Capitol, MoFi, Sony/Columbia, Rhino, and Concord. The website states that "FSE owns Sinatra’s recordings from the Reprise era" and that it "represents the artist’s rights to the Columbia and Capitol catalogues".

Well, there was enough speaking out against this particular release for our host to characterize the original thread as a "bitch fest" (see post one in this thread), and reboot it as "part two".

Also we beat up Capitol pretty well over their recent Come Fly With Me (Mono labeled as Stereo) and Wee Small Hours (wrong song at the end of Side One) LP issues. Speaking for myself, I don't "protect" certain labels or "pile on" certain labels in my posts. My expectations are consistent from release to release: give me with the artist's intended performance with the optimal fidelity that current technology can provide.

The Forum Rules (http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/faq.php?faq=shtv_forumpolicies) refer to "content that can be considered music-industry sensitive", which may provide a clue as to the cause some of the, umm, "post-production" that is applied to threads and posts from time to time.

 

Now that I think about it, I seem to remember that "september of my Years" was next.

 

check mate this. seriously, it's not too much to expect when we're talking the artists of the century so to speak.

 

From Steve Hoffman

I read that review above and just want to comment that remixing this album was the only option. There is nothing "controversial" about it. The original 1967 mix tape melted many years ago (thanks to a design flaw in the inferior Scotch 200 series tape) and only a so-so safety Dolby A dub copy from the 1970's remains. To get a pure sound one would have to attempt a remix.

Carry on.

__________________________________________________________________________

Has anyone actually thought about what Steve Hoffman is saying here. There is nothing "controversial" about it. The original 1967 mix tape melted many years ago (thanks to a design flaw in the inferior Scotch 200 series tape) and only a so-so safety Dolby A dub copy from the 1970's remains.

The tape you are all comparing this release with is no longer is no longer available or usable!

Bought the album on Wednesday but after reading some of the postings and being very busy, I had not played it until tonight.

First, this is not a good reissue-it is a superb reissue. I don't know what equipment the critics are using (they never mention equipment!) but I am listening via an Acoustic Research integrated amplifier, Acoustic Research 6 speakers and a reasonable Nakamichi CD player, all relatively neutral playback equipment.

In regards to concerns about the stereo spread, you can't compare the new remastering to the LP, or previous CDs, only to the master tape, which we do not know. To me, the stereo spread is fine and not exagerated, and the interplay of Frank and Tom's vocals is wonderful. I really don't think stereo spread was limited for headphone or I-Pod use! As far as "clams", I am not even sure if that is what we are actually hearing in Girl From Ipanema. It could be a "tear" of emotion in Frank's voice. Splicing in the "correction", or whatever was done previously, can no longer be done!. Or maybe it could have been digitally "corrected". But, to me, the feeling of regret, in this most famous song of regret or saudade is in some ways even more touching. This may be how Frank was feeling, and it's very real.

Who wants "perfect", I actually somewhat prefer what is real, at least here. I have waited for this "complete" album for a long time. I will gladly purchase more to give as a welcome gift to several cherished friends. I don't hear it to be "overcompressed" the way so many rock or pop albums are!

By the way, Joao Gilberto, the man who created the bossa nova sound, is playing at Carnegie Hall on June 22nd. Go, if you can!

Bennett Melzak, a music lover and psychoanalyst in NYC.

 

The first thing that struck me on the new Sinatra/Jobim disc is that it seemed they were using a different take altogether for Ipanema.

I noticed it right away...

In the "master" we know and love, there are some definitely jazzy rests that FS takes that aren't present in this new set. I immediately though perhaps a different or incorrect master was used. I was too mesmerized to notice other differences, though one of the other tracks seemed to have its speed adjusted slightly.

 

Hi Larry,

Why were the vocal repair overdubs present on the original stereo master not utilized and edited into this Concord remix release? Also, was compression used on the Concord remaster? If so, how much compression and why?

Thanks!

 

Well, they cant f%$k that one up any worse than the "Entertainer of the Century" edition. That has to be one of the worst remasters ever. Quality varies between each track from poor to worse.

 

Indeed: a remastered Ring-A-Ding-Ding! But, please Mr. Walsh, stay close to the original stereo mix (ok, maybe a little drier), and at all possible, please, please include the original mono mix as well!

 

That was the best review of a CD I've ever seen.

 

What's the betting line on lwalsh posting to this thread again?

 

I still love your Sinatra Capitols Larry! Please come back!!!

 

People should realize that he is likely bound by contractual obligations and will be unable to comment or answer questions.

 

the bus company should grant him the right to address the growing unhappy consumer base that exists. in 2010 its all about customer service, seriously, not having a dialogue with the company, LLC, Nancy, Larry, or someone is just a bad business decision...thousands of people hang in here, i've seen comments about this dialogue on other sites already...

 

What a long, strange thread this is...I understand it becomes personal when it's a beloved piece of music that is ill-served by reissue quality, but on the other side of the counter, I've had more than a few customers over the years try to return CDs because they 'heard too much tape hiss and thought it was defective'

 

Yeah iirc it was pretty bad - I didn't keep my copy. A new try at September is welcome and should be a positive improvement overall.

Oh I'd like the original "dry-er" mono mix on CD too but Larry Walsh can only do what he's commissioned to do by the clients, they (presumably FSE) would have to want and arrange for that.

 

We're just the guys to do it!

 

Universal reissued Ring-a-Ding Ding! in Europe last fall, so I think it's unlikely we'll see a "deluxe" release by Concord. The next title that's been announced for Concord is September of My Years in September.