Beatle Songs WITHOUT McCartney

Unless someone else was playing Paul's Ric bass, that is Paul and definitely a Ric!

Frank R.

 

He said he didn't think he played bass on it. It is almost certain Paul is playing on the She Said She Said basic track. The backing track is bass, drums and 2 guitars playing at the same time. That being the case Paul is in there somewhere. Could be GH played bass and Paul guitar but he is on the track. There is no other way to end up with that collection of instruments on the multitrack.

 

To me She Said She Said seems like Paul's style of bass playing.

Is there a Beatles song that George plays on to compare playing styles?

 

I believe Paul's bass part was replaced by George on She Said She Said.

Get Back sessions---Lunch room tape Jan. 13, 1969-----John and Paul are discussing George's playing--whether they should be telling him what to play---he had walked out on the 10th.
John mentions "past numbers" (plural) where he 'allowed you (Paul) to take it where I didn't want my only chance was to allow George to take over because I knew he'd take it as is.' Paul interrupts and cites She Said She Said as an example.
I don't think I am allowed to post a clip....you'll have to take me at my word!

Maybe someone else has heard this!

 

I started this thread!! Start your own thread then instead of a personal attack against me, or shut up if you don't like it!

 

I have always heard the bass on "She Said She Said" as classic Paul McCartney circa 1966. I have read the rebuttals to this for years, but I just don't buy that it is George. It just has too much of Paul's personality - someone earlier said the bass was "bad" in that song - what is bad about it? I love how it so fluid and really holds the song together with the time changes. I also love the way it locks in so well with Ringo's drum flourishes (McCartney and Ringo had gotten so great at this in 66 - my other 2 favorites are the little run at the end of "Rain" and the Anthology "And Your Bird Can Sing".) I know Paul said it wasn't him, but I think audio evidence demonstrates otherwise. (Didn't he also deny singing the back up vocal on "Come Together" or was that John who said that ... when again it really is pretty obvious it is him?)

I am just always surprised how people think Harrison could have pulled this bass playing off (no offense to George.) It is pretty fookin cool bass playing.

 

We all know George was the type of guitarist who would practice his lead bits over and over until he had perfected what he was playing, so there is no reason why he wouldn't do the same on Bass, ie rehearse his part to it was the best it could be, for a guy that was learning Sitar and a lead guitarist playing bass guitar must have been pretty simple for him, even if he couldn't play as good as or the same way as Paul !!

 

Yeah but again that is why I think it is Paul. I think it is a great bass-line but I will admit at the same time it also feels like a toss-off but that is part of why I love it. Maybe "effortless" is a better way to put it. Nothing amazingly fancy is going on, but it just fits in perfectly while leaving a lot of space for the song to breathe.
If it was George I just think it would be a lot less loose, no matter how many times he practiced it (and apparently he didn't have much time on that session anyhow.)

 

For the record I think it is Paul as well, why would George need to play it? Its not like there is piano in the song which could prevent Paul from playing, now wether George overdubbed a new bass track at a later date has got me puzzled by the Beatles talk Jan 13th 1969?

Would it be possible at a later session that Paul and George played it in unison to 'beef' up the sound?

 

One of those mysteries we may never know the answer to. It is possible that Paul and John play guitar on the basic track with George on his Nu Sonic Burns bass. There is evidence of this in pictures, I'll try to find one or two. Is this the reason Paul walked out in a huff? Apparently it was George who helped John with the song, not Paul, so it is possible that George played bass. I feel safe in saying that the bass on She Said... is NOT a Rickenbacker, unless the recording was altered in some way. It is telling that just a few years after the session Paul recalls not being on it (based on that snippet of GB dialogue). Ron

 

Phil, this is one song that Paul himself claims he's not on. The recording analysis tells us that TWO guitars and bass were played on the basic track, together. The question really is whether Paul played bass then left the session (as all who were there recall) or whether he played guitar. It's one of the few songs he doesn't sing harmony on. It's also a song George says he played bass on and the GB dialogue indicates this as well. Lewisohn does say the song took 9 hours to record, and that a reduction mix was done to vacate a track... he then says a guitar and organ were overdubbed, but it's possible that this is where George overdubbed bass (not sure I hear three guitars in the final mix). There's no way to know without listening to the multitracks. Ron
Ron

 

Right, cheers for the Info Ron, the thing is Paul has claimed a lot of things songs he wrote, was on etc that have been proved to be wrong, so he may have forgotten being on the song??

 

Huh? Could you please list all these song claims by McCartney which have been *proven* wrong? I'm not aware of any such proof? Thanks.

 

Phil, it doesn't sound like you'll have enough McCartney-less tracks to make a comp, but you COULD do a "Threetles 1960's" comp and include tracks where a member (or two or three) is missing. Then you could include The Ballad of John and Yoko, etc. Heck you could even start the comp off with Yesterday.

 

No i am not doing a comp, i prefer my Beatles to be group efforts and not for individuals to claim credit etc, i cant even remember why i started this thread now it was a while ago (2007), probally boredom waiting for an anouncement about The Remasters or perhaps there was just too much crazy McCartney fandom that day ?

 

In My Life and Girl for example and perhaps Hey Bulldog

 

"In My Life". Lennon and McCartney had conflicting memories as to McCartney's song writing contributions to the song. At the very least Lennon acknowledged McCartney composing the middle eight melody and the the harmonies.

"Girl". I haven't ever seen a claim by Paul as to helping compose this song

"Hey Bulldog". The song was almost entirely written by Lennon (at McCartney's request) but McCartney helped finish the lyrics in the studio.

 

Again, where's your proof of untruthful claims?

How can you know who's memory is correct about writing the melody of 'In My Life"? You weren't there at these writing sesssions were you? Anyway, it's a John song with (some) help from Paul (the exact amount unknowable) and one the very few songs where there is any substantial disagreement.

Regarding the other two songs:
From the Miles book MYFN:

Paul: "I remember 'Hey Bulldog' as being one of John's songs and I helped him finish it off in the studio, but it's mainly his vibe."

"Girl" was composed at one of Paul and John's writing sessions at Kentwood.

Paul: "It was John's original idea but it was very much co-written. I remember writing the 'pain and pleasure' and 'a man must break his back', it was all very work-on-a-chain-gang.......................So I credit that as being towards John but I put quite a bit in."

Again, what's the problem and where's the proof? They were partners. John later admitted that he had lied in 1970 when he said they stopped writing together in 1964 and in truth they worked together a lot. They both might be a bit off here and there with their estimates. Not a big deal, is it, since both are credited. If John's recollections differ somewhat, he's not necessarily correct.

As an aside, in MYFN, Paul gives John an automatic 10% credit on all his Beatle songs in case he forgot something and because they had influenced and inspired each other so much.

 

I personally think that Paul is very insecure about the Lennon-McCartney partnership and his role wothin The Beatles, to claim he wrote this and that, and for example to use terms like '10% credit goes to John' why does he need to prove he so called wrote parts of Girl we all know he was a genius when i read MYFN I just thought Macca was trying to take some credit away from Lennon and claim it for himself, i found it very egotistic, for gawds sake give the Dead Man full credit he is not here to state what parts of McCartneys songs he wrote or argue McCartneys claims and I bet there are many that we will never know !

 

Correct me if I'm missing something obvious...

Couldn't it simply be that they recorded the guitars and drums first, and then George went back and recorded the bass on a free track?

This would not have required a reduction mix if there was a free track already. It seems feasible that they might have neglected to put this in the production notes. It's also feasible that it was there, but the notes were lost, or that Lewishon wrote his summary based on what he heard on the tape, not supposing that the bass was actually an overdub (he may have neglected to notice this detail in the production notes).

Or maybe it was George _Martin_ on bass.

 

I recommend "Beatlesongs" by William J. Dowling. It's a song-by-song synopsis of every Beatles song, including apportioned authorship (with cited sourcs for the information). I have found it accurate and absent of any pro or anti biases that seem to taint many other books on the Beatles. Although it was published after Lennon's death (1989), there seems to be no disadvantage at Lennon's expense in providing the correct credits.

BTW, I would take any account provided by Lennon's memory with a grain of salt. His recollections are notoriously inaccurate. For that reason, generally speaking, given the choice between Lennon and McCartney's memory in a dispute, I would automatically default in favour of McCartney.

 

It says Lennon-McCartney on the packet, so why do we need to know who wrote 27.5% of the song, who played on the song is different IMO but can it just be accepted that Lennon & McCartney wrote the song, obvious examples like Yesterday and Help! aside. If I was McCartney I would have at least stated that 50% of the song was Lennon regardless if it wasn't just to protect the memory of his so called 'Soul Mate's' legacy and not try to claim i did this or that, you could still talk about the song but for example as 'we did this and we did that etc' ?

This is why i prefer George Harrison he took to his grave all the songs he wrote for Ringo, and the songs were not just throwaways like 'Cookin In The Kitchen' etc but good songs that could have enhanced his albums and reputation but he gave Ringo full credit etc, Octupussy Garden, Photograph and It Dont Come Easy I think was not even included in 'I Me Mine' but there were clearly Harrison/Starkey songs!

 

Bottom line is you have no proof.

We'll have to agree to disagree. MYFN is a great book with loads of valuable information about their songwriting partnership and Paul's loving memories of John as a partner and person.

Yes, Paul is insecure about his Beatles legacy, but not without good reason. He gets to have his say too and look after his own legacy. Yoko sure makes sure John's legacy is looked after, as did John.

How can you object to Paul having his say about L-M songs,
when an insecure John took the opportunity in three separate interviews between 1970 - 1980 to do the same?? For goodness sake, John started it. He started this whole John versus Paul crap.

For the sake of balance, fairness (and historical accuracy) John being dead is completely irrelevant to Paul getting to record his recollections for posterity, too.

There is no reason to think Paul's not being as honest and accurate as he can (while accepting that none of them have perfect memories and everyone (John, George, Paul, Ringo, you and me) is going to be self serving to some extent.

Ok, I'm done..

 

Well, for example, in a thread such as this when someone appears to be pre-occupied with, let's say, an inaccurate notion that an insecure McCartney has made false claims as to his actual contributions in the song-writing process, given the offical Lennon/ McCartney credit, and rants on and on about it, an independent reliable source may be helpful.