Black Sabbath -Paranoid SACD?

The WB vinyl of Paranoid sound exactly like the WB CDs - not good. You need UK Vertigo vinyl if vinyl is what you are after.

 

Sorry for a threacrap folks but I picked up Vertigos of Technical Ecstasy and Born Again and these are the first 2 listenable CD versions of TE and BA that I heard.

 

He obviously is not a fan of the quad mix!

 

To continue the crap:

How is the Vertigo TE compared to the Warner, which I believe is the current 'forum favorite', being supposedly the least of the evils?

Which Vertigo of BA - WG or Japanese, and how is it different than the Castle remaster?

 

Avoid all Vertigo CDs mastered by Hans Brethouwer unless you have a high tolerance for smiley-faced EQ. His version of TE is atrocious. Jacked up so hard it'll make your head spin and the midrange suckout on it is just plain silly. It's a rollercoaster ride and fun for a few minutes, but overall the Warner CD is ten times better even if a little bright in spots. For the best option, it probably makes sense to go for vinyl.

The only Vertigo CDs I've ehard and like are those done by Gert Van Hoeyen (H&H, Mob Rules) and Seventh Star, which has no mastering credit and may not have been remastered since it came out in the age of digital.

I believe the JPN and WG Vertigos for BA may be the same, but I haven't confirmed this yet. The Japan pressing of Seventh Star is idenitcal to the WG pressing, and I have a feeling the same will apply to Born Again. I hope to confirm this soon.

 

It destroys the Warner which is muddy as hell and sounds like a 10 generation cassette on Dolby C. Vertigo doesn't sound like original master tapes either (probably a second or third generation tape) but is much cleaner. I cannot hear any brightness or smiley EQ that Jeff writes about - nice smooth sound, typical of many 80's unremastered CDs and certainly in line with Heaven and Hell Vertigo. Both Tony Iommi's guitar and Ozzy's voice sound very believable. It's much much smoother than Castle remaster and Black Box and really dynamic.

The same can be said about Born Again though I can only compare it to Castle remaster but they sound like 2 different mixes. The Vertigo sounds much more dynamic and natural, the record actually sound muddy (like it's supposed to sound, remember we're talking Born Again here) not ear-piercing like Castle remaster with it's ridiculously boosted highs and mids.

 

Jeff, we have 2 fundamentaly different sounding systems obviously if you find Warner TE "a little bright in spots". There are NO highs whatsoever on this one, it's one of the dullest and muddiest CDs that I ever heard.

 

When will thie be released?

 

I used to think this, and I like the dullness of the Warner CD, but TE is a very strangely produced album. Even on the WB CD, parts get a bit bright (IE: Ozzy's voice at the end of "Dirty Women"). I have a feeling there is some midrange tweaking on the WB CD or from the source used or something...

Most of all, I have been meaning to pick this up on vinyl to compare.

In the meantime, as far as CD is concerned, there is no contest, IMO. Warner CD by a mile.

 

Well, let's face it, listening to two cats phucking would beat the sound of the Castle remaster of Technical Ecstasy. I agree that the Rhino sucked, too, but that doesn't help us much.

The question for many would be between the original Warner CD and the Vertigo. If you post a sample from the Vertigo, I'll post a sample from the Warner CD and we can all download and compare them.

 

Well, we agree to disagree - I picked these Vertigos fearing the smiley EQ that you said was typical with Hans Brethouwer and was glad to hear none of it but a nice smooth dynamic (if not crystal clear) sound. I'm sure that vinyl destroys Vertigos TE and BA just as any other CD releases after them. Still the best sounding digital versions for me. I could not even listen to the Warner TE and sold it long time ago - I simply couldn't hear half of musical detail that I knew was on the album, it's SO muddy.

 

Jeff, I'm ashamed to admit but I simply don't know how to do this stuff yet. PM me please how to do this and I'll do gladly.

 

Ok, Anton.

Dynamics on those CDs are no problem, btw. Plenty. It's just Brethouwer and his freaking jacked up EQ settings that ruin them. Midrange suckout.:thumbsdn:

 

No problem.

In fact, for the sake of anyone else here who doesn't know I'll just go over it here.

1. Rip a track from CD to your hard drive.

2. Use a program to split the track into smaller segments of 30 seconds to 1 minute or so. A really good one that has a free trial is Wav Splitter http://www.009soft.com/products/wav-splitter.htm

3. You will now have the track split into three smaller segments. Pick the one you want to upload.

4. Go to www.yousendit.com and upload the track for free.

5. Click on the link that comes up when it is finished, then right click, copy and paste that link here.

I'm on way out the door right now but any troubles just PM me and I'll get back to you later tonight or tomorrow. Or maybe someone else here can help you through it. It would be cool if you could learn to do this so we can do some comparisons now and in the future.

 

It already has been released as a CD/DVD package. I don't think an SACD release is or will be forthcoming.

 

I have the WB Technical Ecstasy on vinyl. It's a tad less bright than the WB CD (at least on my TT rig). And the "walking the streets" bit at the end of Dirty Women isn't quite as piercing as it is on the CD. It's smoother on the vinyl.

 

Sorry Jeff, I was trying to discern what the best version of Paranoid is on vinyl, especially between the original US warner bros, UK vertigo and the Rhino. The discussions on this issue were unclear and fragmented; I myself will try to be more clear

Thanks John, the vinyl is definitely what I'm after. I'll look for the UK vertigo and pass on the green label WB copy.

 

I don't find the Warner TE CD too dull (and don't like the album enough to try to find the Vertigo), so I may lay off the Vertigo BA, although the Castle is certainly bright. What I'd be real curious to hear are samples of the Castle and Vertigo Born Again.

Anton, you certainly have nice equipment. Out of pure curiousity, do you think you may have some hearing damage in the upper frequencies? Just curious since you seem to go against the grain in finding things dull that others find bright.

 

Rhino:thumbsdn::thumbsdn:
UK Vertigo:
German Vertigo:
Japanese Philips:


Somebody else will have to chime in on the Warner greenie. It's been a long time since I heard it but I'd bet it would surely beat the Rhino.

 

Thanx for suggestion but we simply hear things differently and have different systems. I'm not suggesting you have an overly bright system because a hopelessly dull CD sounds balanced to your ears, do I? I heard people raving about their megabuck set ups which we positioned in the room so poorly they had no bass whatsoever etc. And these folks are happy with them.

Now I'm extremely sensitive and allergic to brightness and my system is assembled from smooth sounding components though still far from being as smooth as I want simply because my speakers are modern and not vintage. Yet I simply don't hear any brightness in those Vertigos of TE and BA - they both are lightyears smoother and natural sounding than Castle remasters.

 

I didn't mean anything negative in my post - just curious. Certainly wasn't criticizing your system, and yes everyone's hearing is different. Hell I know my upper frequency hearing isn't perfect, from some combination of working in the engine room of merchant ships, going to concerts, listening to headphones while mowing the lawn in high school, age, etc.

For anyone interested this is a cool way to test your hearing that I discovered on here on these forums (of course, sound card and headphone characteristics will affect the result as well). For me, it confirmed that my right ear is better than my left, and also showed that my hearing is worse at 2-4 kHz and gets better again at 6-8 kHz, and that I can't hear much at 16 kHz. (And yet I still find the Warner TE far from 'dull' or 'muddy' )

http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/hearing.html

 

Sanctuary/Universal vinyl

WB green label is not bad. I wouldn't pass up a minty copy if you find at a reasonable price ($20 or lower). It was cut from a tape dub, but it still has that tubey glow familiar to all those classic early 70's WB/Reprise vinyl. A good cutting if not the final word. The UK Vertigo is still my reference. HOWEVER, I did buy the new Sanctuary/Universal gatefold double-LP and just auditioned War Pigs. I have not heard the CD remaster, so this was my first go-'round with it. I was stunned to hear the clarity, separation, and instrumental timbre that was retrieved from what I can only assume is the 'real McCoy' two-track master tape. And the naturalness of the mastering was a relief to hear. I was happy that one of my all-time favorite albums was treated with such care and respect. I will also say that this is definitely cut from Andy Pearce's digital master, and it is not the most organic-sounding slab, although it sounds very good. For best-sound, get a UK Vertigo. But Sabbath fans will not be let down by the knock-out presentation, sonically, visually, and tactilely. LP's are heavy 180-200g with quiet vinyl (Pallas?) with original Vertigo labels. 'Francis' in dead wax. Quality gatefold jacket has cover art not blurred by poor facsimile and professional layout. Sleeves are custom b&w glossy containing art that is in CD booklet. I have removed disks and placed in rice paper sleeves for long-term storage. I will be getting the next few releases on Sanctuary/Universal vinyl.

 

What about the other UK vinyl issues like the ones issued by NEMS and WTA after the Vertigo LPs. I seen MOR on all 3 labels.

 

NEMS sound good, some are from the same stampers as the original UK. WWA is the best way to hear SBS, too, IMO. I have heard a WB palm tree of the s/t that was absolutely crushing and it has Wicked World, to boot.

 

wherehouse.com has this in stock now for $30.38 if anyone still needs it.