Bowie: Is RCA vinyl the Best Sound we are going to get?

I seriously believe Bowie may read this thread and consider remastering his catalogue. I can't see a perfectionist like him letting his catalogue exist in perpetuity the way it sounds now.

 

Remastering Bowie's Catalogue

I love this idea, but I guess there are a lot of folks that find that Bowie's catalog on CD when from sounding pretty darn good on RCA, to not as good on Ryko, to with noise reduction on Virgin. The sound trajectory seems to headed in one direction -- sadly.

I love Bowie's music and over the last year have really started getting back into it. Remaster it better and I'm in ...

 

two words... Steve and Hoffman

 

two words... We and wish

 

I have a question regarding Diamond Dogs.

I have 4 different versions of this album. At the beginning of the album 2 of them have a far distant howl (very quiet) before a much louder closer howl. The quiet howl almost sounds like tape echo.

The other two starts with the closer louder howl. Are these versions missing some information or is this the way the album is supposed to start?

 

Two more words: Fat and Chance

Evan

 

Here's mine:

Diamond Dogs A-1 ouy also A6S
B -1 ouy also A6T

Ziggy -6E also A10
B -4E also A2H

MWSTW -1E also A2
B -1E (though E may be missing its central bar, could be C or even G)

Hunky -2E also A2 AH
B -3E also A1 Z

Aladdin -3T also A5 AD
B -3T also A4 W

In every case the catalog number is also shown, of course; some are handwritten, some stamped.

Tim

 

I genuinely admire your optimism. However, I think it is rather unlikely that he'll end up reading this thread.

Excuse me if I diverge a little, but I wouldn't even consider Bowie a perfectionist. He's an opportunist who works very fast - often at the last minute and then rapidly loses interest in a project once it reaches completion. He's not really someone who agonizes over the sound quality or endlessly tweaks things until they are perfect. He relies on good producers who can keep up with his way of working in the studio and inevitably there are compromises to be made between capturing an inspired musical moment vs reaching the highest sound quality.

It would be fantastic of someone like Steve Hoffman could remaster some of his Bowie's 1970s albums, but they would have a hard job getting some of them to sound any better than their original vinyl versions do. I'm thinking of albums like Diamond Dogs, Heroes, Lodger which have been problems either in the mix or the level of sound processing during their recording. They are great, but not perfectly engineered great (does that make sense?). I would only single out Ziggy Stardust as being a beautifully engineered recording. Ken Scott did a superb job on Ziggy and a careful remastering could be a real treat.

 

As a Bowie fan since the 70s I guess I'll add my 2 cents.

I have virtually all the pre-Scary Monsters stuff on RCA US vinyl, UK vinyl early pressings, UK vinyl digital re-masters, RCA International vinyl usually German, RYKO clear vinyl, and Japanese Vinyl.

With some notable exceptions that I will mention the UK vinyl sounds the best to me.

With NO exceptions the RYKO clear vinyl is hideously bright and the worst of the bunch. I kept these because the packaging is great.

Most of the Japanese vinyl like Low, Heroes that I had was not very good. They sounded closed down. However, my Japanese of Hunky Dory and Alladin Sane are very good.

I never liked what I heard on the RCA International label and the MOFI of Ziggy is really bad, the UK vinyl is way better.

The digital UK vinyl re-issues (came out in the early to mid 90s) are not that bad, in fact they are pretty good. I have Station, Low, Heroes in that format.

So, I would always go with the UK vinyl when in doubt. With the current weakness of the GBP buying copies via Ebay from the UK is not too expensive right now.

 

My UK RCA orange label Bowie matrix numbers are:
MWSTW: BPRS 4512 A3 AS, BPRS 4513 1E A2 B (good, powerful sound, full bass)
Hunky Dory (copy a): APRS 5947 - 4E A2D, APRS 5948 - 5E A4M (better side 1)
Hunky Dory (copy b): APRS 5947 - 3T A2H Bobil, APRS 5948 3T A1AP Rasputin (better side 2)
Ziggy: BGBS - 0864 - 6E A3V, BGBS 0865 - 4E A2AH (great sounding copy, also have a German issue - lovely but different sound, maybe less compression)
Aladdin Sane: CPRY 4543-3T A2, CPRY 4544-3T A5D (great sound)
Pin Ups: strange, can't find my copy on the shelf - will look later
Diamond Dogs: ARLI-0576A-1oly A5K, ARLI-0576-B-1oly A1Y (good sound, wish the mix had a bit more mid-range)
Young Americans: only have a German copy, haven't compared to a UK
Station to Station: APLI-1327-A-2E A2AD M, APLI-1327-B-1E A2AK (excellent, also have a German issue - bit of a high end boost didn't like it so much)
Low: PL 12030-A1 STERLING A3A W, PL 12030-B-1 A1X STERLING M (excellent, but have a German issue which beats it)
Heroes: PL12522-A-1 A4P STERLING 'W', PL12522-B-5E A3P DAVE'S RCA (excellent, have a German issue which is not as good)
Lodger: BOWLP1 (PL13254)-A NO SENSE IS BETTER... A2J STERLING gl, BOWLP1 (PL13254)B-2 A2D ...THAN NONE AT ALL STERLING gl (great sound - better than the German issue)

I also have the EMI100 issues of Hunky Dory and Alladin Sane. I can recommend them. Originals are a little warmer but these reissues were mastered from analogue and have excellent sound.

 

I disagree. I think most of Bowie's albums were very well engineered. The problem is that most of the Ryko and Virgin cd issues went through way too much processing. The RCA cds are better, but I doubt the best tape sources were used.

 

I tend to agree, but "Heroes" never sounded very good to me, and Diamond Dogs has that weird "reverb-ambiance-thing" to it...

 

Not saying any were badly done, just that he's not a perfectionist about it - you could say that all sound good enough, but only Ziggy gets an outstanding score from me.

 

Like plan9, I would also agree that they are pretty good... well, theres a capability to make them sound good as evidenced by the RCAs. I think that the original masters have sonic problems in that they are generally way too midsy and too discreet... by that I mean, take station to station ryko au20, its still sounds fantastic but it doesn't sound like the rca. It is missing the bass mud that actually makes the whole thing come together. Same with Low, the master (again, by the au20) is just missing the low end thumpiness that makes it all cohesive. Whether this means that they didn't eq the tapes right or something else, its clear that they just need a softening and they'll be great. In good hands they can sound great, in bad hands they are awful.

 

See My Signature...

Just wanna chime in and say great thread, fascinating reading/opinions from one and all, seems like all the Bowie threads around here are most enlightening and make me wanna break out what I got... (most recently a nice Uk RCA vinyl copy of Hunky Dory (my fave) from our own Cassius... yummy...!)


cheers,

 

On Scary Monsters (samples/images):

http://www.vomitgod.com/weblog/2008/04/on-david-bowies-scary-monsters-album/

On Aladdin Sane (samples/images):

http://www.vomitgod.com/weblog/2008/12/on-david-bowies-aladdin-sane-album/

Well said, cybermantis - "In good hands they can sound great, in bad hands they are awful."

 

So the '99 Aladdin Sane and the 30th anniversary are different masterings? I always thought they just re-used the Peter Mew mastering.

What about the '99 and the 30th ann. Diamond Dogs? Are they different too?
I have the 30th ann. and if someone has the EMI CD it would be cool to compare.

 

If I remember correctly, (I have the disc, but don't have it in front of me at work) it is a unique mastering. I think Ken Scott and Peter Mew are credited for the 30th remaster.

 

Thank you for that. Here's mine...for Diamond Dogs. This is handwritten.

ARL1-0576A-loly (or lovy)

 

Why not include Ziggy Stardust in your recommendation? The Japan RCA cd sounds awesome.

 

I think that's the same as my 1 ouy. Just a bit hard to make out!

Tim

 

I guess I'm spoiled with my original UK first press LP but I don't find the Japan RCA CD to sound great.
But it seems it is the best there is in digital. I'll have to pull it from the shelves and give it one more listen as so many members here love it.

 

Ok, cool. Yeah, it is kinda hard.

 

Dare I ask how's the Scary Monsters SACD?

I know Chip Stylus said it has the worst smiley-face EQ ever... but what other members think?

 

I think Chip Stylus was talking about Ziggy SACD.