When is the excessive digital compression applied?

I'm sure someone here can find the quote faster than me. Someone here emailed Bob about it and he said that the McCartney album was squashed when get got it in for mastering.

 

I searched and found several people here who had emailed Bob Ludwig about "Memory Almost Full".

 

-while recording, compression can be applied as an analog or digital process, limiting the dynamic range of the recorded signal forever

- while mixing, individual tracks or groups of tracks, bussed together, can be compressed

-while making the final mixdown, this can be compressed or limited (limiting is at its core just compression with a high or infinite compression ratio, out of the scope of this thread, but it can be explained)

some mixers at this point use the compression or limiting while mixing, but deliver the mix to the mastering engineer without the compression so the mastering engineer can choose how much, if any, to apply.

-the mastering engineer can choose to compress and/or limit the dynamic range of the mix to fit it to the delivery requirements

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All of this has an effect on the dynamic range of individual parts or the entire mix. None is inherently evil, but, especially the compression and limiting of final mixes can be the problem that is being discussed here.

 

There is a lot of blame going toward some generic digital compressor that seems to cover all the negative things happening to the sound of modern music. I'm not sure where this idea came from but digital compression is no different than analog compression. Don't let anyone tell you anything different. I'm going to post some clips comparing an analog compressor I use every day with its digital counterpart. I doubt even I can tell a difference.

I know this post won't help and there will be yet another thread just like this in two weeks blaming that same generic digital compressor for all evils but for now trust me that isn't the case. It's a mix style. That's it. No matter how popular it is to debate this whole issue has nothing to do with digital or analog anything. It's merely a case of old aesthetic versus new.

Old school mixes had dynamics. There was something loud so there had to be something soft. Modern mixes have much finer balances to make them more competitive and louder even before the compression. Everything is given more of an equal importance in the mix so the instruments are much closer in volume making the overall mix sound louder. It's actually really cool to be able to hear every instrument at all times. It takes a heck of a lot of skill to make these type of mixes. Then you add compression to that already tightly compacted mix and you get a louder end product.

But please stop saying its digital compression and Pro Tools causing the problem. That's just misinformation and complete silliness (although it does give me a chuckle).

 

Here, from an email to me:

 

I have analog consoles so I can't use plug-ins. I need the real units in that room but my digital rooms use plug-ins and they're amazingly true to the originals. No way to accurately tell the difference, especially inside a mix.

 

We should open an ICU (Intensive Common-Sense Unit) on this forum for those people to consult before making their last decision. Perhaps we can talk some sense into them.

 

No, but it probably won't rain as much in Iowa.

 

What? What earring are you talking about?

 

More proof that we need your input.

 

+1

 

Jamie, I am still waiting to listen to them since the other thread. Let me know when you upload them.

 

I haven't made them yet. Maybe this weekend I'll have a few minutes to do it. I'll start a thread, probably with a poll.

 

You seem to say its a good thing then say its a problem, make ur mind up!

 

I don't think I made an assertion either way. It's blanket statements like all digital compression is bad that I'm complaining about and trying to correct. I think many here have been told digital=bad and that's simply wrong and myopic.

 

It depends. What people are generally complaining about when referring to "compressed" "smashed" "brickwalled" or "loud" sound is compression typically applied during the mastering phase with the deliberate intention of minimizing dynamic range irregardless of sound quality.

This kind of compression can be and is sometimes applied in prior stages. It'll sound bad regardless of the stage at which it occurs and whether it is digital or analog gear that's being misused. Obviously it would be best if recordings are "tracked" and mixed properly, then over-compressed at the mastering stage if insisted upon at the ignorant request of someone "responsible." That way a proper recording exists if someone wants to release it in a form more amendable to listening.

It is.

But I thank you. You're trying to make as good a recording as you can in "tracking" and mix, so it'll exist in a well recorded form apart from this current phase. It could be this way for a long time yet, but someday all things will change. Already there are sometimes alternative releases. There are many older recordings that had terrible first issues, but which we can now hear in beautiful sound thanks to engineers having recorded it well regardless of the release sound. Someone somewhere someday may very well appreciate that you recorded it well no matter how crappy the self-extinguishing CD release was.

 

My 2 cents :

- compression is mostly needed when mixing because all the instruments have been close miked. In a live music situation one doesn't hear a band play with as many ears as there are instruments. And not at the same distance as the microphones are from the instruments.
When one listens to an instrument from the same distance the microphone is, not only would you hear the instrument louder but you will also hear more dynamics then if you'd listen to the instrument from a normal distance.
Listening (or miking) from a distance is applying some sort of compression.

-Digital compressors can imitate analog compressors. But digital compressors can do much more than analog compressors. Digital compressors can adapt the compression rate much faster than their analog counterparts.
Used as plugins, some digital compressors can "look ahead" and already adapt themselves to the signal that is going to pass through them before the signal actually arrives.
Because digital compressors can react much faster they allow for a much hotter mix.

 

Oh yeah some compression is defiantly needed, it would be silly to have one single loud point 2 samples long bringing the overall volume down by 3db.

 

Just to bring this thread back to where I started it.

As our host pointed out above, some compression is appropriate to create a "perfect recording".

What most of us on this forum deplore is the EXCESSIVE compression which is applied - ala the loudness war.

And what I asked at the start is when is this EXCESSIVE compression applied, and do the musicians ever very closely listen to the brick-walled result in one long sitting at fairly loud volume.

So lets all agree that some compression has always been appropriate.

What I am saddened to learn is that there are now cases where the EXCESSIVE compression is applied at such an early stage that there is no master-tape with decent sound quality.

 

After the recent REM Accelerate album came out, a member posted the below thread. In that case, I'm wondering (from people who do this for a living) if the excessive compression is in the mix not the mastering, and if the excessive compression was applied at too early a stage to be able to remix/remaster a better sounding record.

http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=144917

 

Exactly what Steve said. The proper, and i stress PROPER use of analog or digital compression will greatly enhance a mix. But the thing is, people intending to maximize loudness just brickwall it and there you go. Compression isnt as evil as you may think, at least in the right hands.

 

I guess that we should just be happy that mastering is being done so the music will sound great on our ipods.
It takes a lot of compression to make sure that those dynamics will be incredible for those little earbuds.

 

Does "Magic" sound good on an Ipod? Just curious.