Question for Barry Diament re: GUNS N' ROSES "Appetite For Destruction"

Hi Barry,

I was wondering if you could comment on your work for this album on CD. As opposed to your work on albums by AC/DC, Led Zeppelin and Yes, this album came out on CD at the same time it came out on vinyl and cassette.

Was this approached by you as a "new" album at the time? For instance, did the producer and/or the band attend the mastering session or was this treated by you more like your other work at the time...more of a "historical" approach, if you will.

Just curious...thanks.

 

Hi Rob,

I did this when the album was new, as the original CD release. Geffen A&R man Tom Zutaut called me and asked me to meet with him and Axl when they came to New York. Tom had me do the CD master while the other formats were mastered at Sterling.

Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

And this one is brilliant, Barry... honestly!

Let me ask you, although you had worked with numerous headline bands prior to 1987, did you get the feeling there was something special about "Appetite" and the Gunners in general?

I remember hearing it for the first time in 1987 when I was going to college in San Diego and told my friends "this one is going to be huge, fellas, mark my words on it."

I specifically remember that day as most of the LA metal bands had been regurgitating the same album over and over for the better part of past two years (1985 - 1986), and although I was a "hair-metal" fan then, and still am today, the industry was a bit stagnant in 1987... until A.F.D. hit.

You had to be in Southern California at the time to really understand what I'm saying. There was an immediate "fever" and grew rapidly across the US and throughout the world. Dare I say one of the greatest metal debuts of all-time!

 

I lived in Florida at the time, and I understand what you are saying... but then again I lived in Southern Cal up until that year.

Greatest metal debute, absolutely. Greatest metal album, period... probably.

I remember the first time that I heard Sweet Child, whoah!!!!

 

My thoughts exactly, Matt.

And I certainly did not mean to alienate anyone living outside Southern California in 1987, but obviously that is where the album first "took off" and it spread like wildfire... and quickly!

 

I bought it on tape when it came out in '87 because I read about them in countless magazines & they had been compared to some of my fave bands like Hanoi Rocks, NY Dolls, Stones, Aerosmith, Pistols, etc. Well, I loved it! But, I thought "This will be another album that I will cherish & no one else will probablly ever give a crap about..." Good for them, I was wrong.
RRR

 

I had picked up the "Live!!! Like a Suicide" EP, then AFD and was sure G'n'R would be one fo those bands that I would love, but would never make it big. They had that Hanoi look, covered Aerosmith, and swaggered like the Stones - you just knew they wouldn't hit it big in a hair metal world. Then a friend and I went to a Motorhead/Alice Cooper show, and AFD was playing over the PA between bands. You could see that the crowd was digging it, and just a few weeks later, "Sweet Child..." was all over the place.

I figure that if they hadn't become so huge, and had peaked at Hanoi Rocks cult band level, we would have gotten a lot more music from them over the years, and wouldn't be waiting 15 years for a new album.

 

I would be interested to know if Barry's mastering is on the Japan 32XD cd which collectors pay big coin for (the last went for a measly $76). I am hoping the better option is to get the USA '87 disc if they are the same mastering.

 

+1 to all of your words. I did the same thing with my friends at UVA after having picked up the CD during Thanksgiving break '87.

 

The first Danzig album is better. heheheh.

-MCD

 

Hi gener8tr,

Thanks for your comments.

I must admit, they weren't my personal cup of rock tea but I'm always happy when bands do well.

Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

same.

does anyone know?

one thing's for sure: if the 32XD is different than the original, it was only Barry's edition that was personally approved by the band.

 

Thanks, Barry. I'll bet no one at the time knew that they were creating that generation's very own "Led Zeppelin IV". So to speak...

 

Barry, do you know when WEA released AFD if they mastered straight from your mastering, assuming it was analog, or recorded it to a DAT machine creating the digital master before global production?

The 32XD is a really good mastering and similar to other analog sounding BD masterings I've heard. Compared to the N. American and European pressings that all sound digitally compressed slightly to me is why I ask.

 

Hi Dave,

"Mastered straight from" my "mastering"?
Do you mean cut the glass master?

"Assuming it was analog"?
You don't mean the CD master, right? You're referring to the original mixes?

Sorry for the questions. I'm trying to ascertain what you are asking so I can give you a useful answer.

How's this?:
The original tapes (i.e. the mixes) were analog.
Like all CD masters created back then, what I sent the plant (or the label in this case) was a CD master in the form of a 3/4" u-matic video tape.
To the best of my knowledge, the plant used this tape (or possibly a clone made at Geffen/Warner) when generating the glass master used for disc replication.
I would imagine global production was from other u-matic clones made at Geffen/Warner. (I certainly hope DAT tapes were not involved.)

"Digital compression"? Not me, ever.
Analog compression? Outside of two instances, both at the insistence of the producer (Freedy Johnston's "Learning to Fly" CD and the cassette - but not the CD - for Pete Townshend's "Psychoderelict") I have never used compression, period.
Of course, I'm pretty sure compression was used in the mixing stage but none at all from the time "Appetite..." got to my hands.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

All I can add to this is that the CD is fantastic! My favorite is "Paradise City".

 

How does the 32XD differ from the MoFi? The original release always sounded pretty good to me, but I always enjoyed having the four GnR albums on gold disc.

 

Hi Barry,

Perhaps this might explain what I'm asking you. On all Atlantic work you've done ie. AC/DC (the only pressing that I've heard to accurately portray your mastering is the Japanese 1st and 2nd pressings. All others sound unrelaxed where the vocalist sounds hard/brittle and forced along with the instruments) including the original Australian Albert Cds). The differences on my system are truly astounding. Led Zeppelin (again the same scenario only with others sounding slightly compressed, unfocused and muddy in the bottom end as opposed to hard/sharp. However, not at all like the AC/DC albums and remaining true to the original analog mix).

I'm definitely getting the impression now that what I'm hearing could be much more of a pressing plant issue where they've created a digital copy for production. Either that or Atlantic was sending out digital clones of the original u-matics for global CD production.

Any of this make any sense to you Barry or am I way off here?

 

this record changed my life. spun it a million times, and it always brings a thrill. thanks barry, for the part you played!

 

Hi Dave,

I'm sorry but I'm still not exactly clear. (Or maybe I am?)
It sounds like you're saying you suspect differences between pressings (from different plants) to be attributable to copying of the CD master made in the mastering session. Is that about it?

In the instances of big selling albums, the tape made at the mastering session was always kept in house and direct clones of this are what was sent to the pressing facilities. While I never took a digital "clone" to be an exact copy in the sense we've been told (i.e. "its just bits and nothing can change"), a clone would not cause a change where the sound goes from relaxed and natural to brittle and out of focus. (Maybe a clone of a clone of a clone...)
In the early days, the plants were all doing glass in real time also so that isn't a possible cause as it would be today. Then again, there are variables in the LBR (laser recorder) they use to make the glass, variables in how long they run the injection mold cycle, etc .

So I'm not sure exactly what to attribute the differences to.
If they're as great as you describe, I find it hard to believe they are sourced from the same original CD master... Either that or we're seeing just how badly things can get messed up if folks try hard enough.

All this assumes they're taking the tape they receive and manufacturing CDs from it. If someone is deciding to "add" something or alter the sound in any way, all bets are off and anything at all can happen.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

My sentiments exactly. I liked SCOM, but I couldn’t get comfortable with Axels voice. To me it sounds like he took a hit of helium, and the way he turned out, I don’t have to feel guilty about it anymore. I loved the band though.

 

Hi Barry,

I am curious as to whether or not you've heard the MOFI gold CD? And if you have, what are your impressions of it? I hope that wouldn't be putting you too much on the spot.

Thanks again for all the detail you go into with your replies. It's greatly appreciated.

 

Hi Scott,

I haven't heard the MoFi gold CD.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Question: Is the current cd copy a result of your work?

-MCD

 

Hi motorcitydave,

Someone earlier in this thread suggested the CD has not been re-mastered since the original release. I don't know for sure but if that is the case, it suggestes the current CD is sourced from my work.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com