Help me spend some money on a Turntable/Pre Amp

[Jamie Tate]

Found some great vinyl over Christmas at an Orlando record shop. Unopened Klaatu, mint Nilsson Schmilsson, Trevor Rabin pre Yes stuff (Rabbit), Emitt Rhodes, Merry Go Round (Emitt Rhodes), unopened Genesis, rare Billy Joel, rare Yes, etc...

I've been searching through the archives to get some suggestions on turntable/ pre amp but I felt like a mountain was going to fall and kill me. Lots of info out there. This subject is slightly out of my expertise. Thankfully I have a bunch a friends that know about this stuff. Well friends, help me spend some cash!

I'm hoping to find a decent turntable and pre amp for around $2000 total. I have a wall full of records that I've always been afraid to play. I was waiting to get the proper gear to play and record them. I am going to record them onto CD at 24/96 with my Alesis Masterlink and some nice outboard converters. I wish I had a DSD recorder instead but I've waited too long already.

Also, is the Discwasher D4+ an adequate way of cleaning these things?

Help me out all you vinyl gurus!


Thanks for the advice.

[BradOlson]

Check out www.northernlightfx.com for DJ turntables and get a DJ mixer to go along with it, you can never go wrong with a Gemini, a Stanton or a Numark turntable and we carry the mentioned brands for turntables and mixers.
But for the "audiophile" buyer in you, you can check out such sites as www.acousticsounds.com
www.betterrecords.com
www.elusivedisc.com
and get the turntables mentioned here the most such as Rega Planar and such stuff as a cleaning machine (we have a high quality cleaning brush from Stanton available which is the best brush cleaning system I have ever seen), and other stuff. Discwasher is an OK system though.

[BradOlson]

I got an online friend to either get the Stanton STR8-80 for Christmas or buy it himself. He got it for Christmas and says it is the best turntable he ever had and it is a refurbished turntable but works very good. It shows that you usually can't go wrong with Stanton at all. The turntable I have is a Gemini XL-200 and both of these turntables and others can be bought at www.northernlightfx.com (a link is also on the Site Seeing section of the main Steve Hoffman website)

[aashton]

On the deck front - I would go and have a listen to the Clearaudio champion fitted with something along the lines of a RB-250 or RB-300 arm. This gives a nice and upgradeable starting point and I have found the ClearAudio sound much to my liking although as with all things its a matter of personal taste. Competitive with this and looking like a bit more engineering for the buck would be the VPI Scout with matching arm or the Rega P25. All of these are on this page at Acoustic Sounds http://store.acousticsounds.com/store.cfm?searchtext=23&do=search&field=format. Does your budget include a cartridge or will you be re-using one already owned ?

p.s. What rare Yes stuff did you pick up - I'm going through another of my Yes phases at present :D

All the best - Andrew

[Ted Bell]

Yesman,
Do you need a full function pre or just phono stage? I started back in vinyl about a year ago with Rega Planar 3 and monolithic PS-1-alot less than your budget and thought it sounded great. Once I got back the vinyl bug, I have since upgraded the 'table and am in the process of upgrading the phono stage.

BTW, What was the record store in Orlando? I'm frequently over there at the theme parks with family, but haven't run across any worthwhile vinyl shops.

Jay N.

[Jamie Tate]

Originally posted by aashton
What rare Yes stuff did you pick up - I'm going through another of my Yes phases at present :D

All the best - Andrew

I spend WAAAYY too much but I couldn't pass this up. Someone either got in trouble with the wife or died because this collection was too good. Even though I have most of this stuff on CD I had to get the vinyl. It's just sexier.

Jon Anderson interview disc from Going for the One.
Leave It 45 with vocal only mix.
Jon Anderson solo albums (all unopened except Animation) Olias of Sunhillow, Song of Seven, 3 Ships and Animation (good condition).
Trevor Rabin interview disc form 1989.
Several live boots.
Radio copy of a 90125 show.
Several unopened 12" remixes from Big Generator.
Very clean copies of Yes albums up to Big Generator.
First two solo Steve Howe albums.
Chris Squire- Fish Out Of Water
Alan White- Ramshackled
Rick Wakeman- Journey to the Center of the Earth.
Trevor Rabin's first solo record.
Rabbit- Boys Will Be Boys.
John Paul Jones- Scream for Help Soundtrack (two Jon Anderson tunes)
A Jon and Vangelis 45 with a non-album b-side.
Vultures- non-album b-side from ABWH.

[Jamie Tate]

Originally posted by aashton
Does your budget include a cartridge or will you be re-using one already owned ?


You mean they don't come with a cartridge? I didn't know that. See, you guys are helping me already.

[Jamie Tate]

Originally posted by Ted Bell
Yesman,
Do you need a full function pre or just phono stage? I started back in vinyl about a year ago with Rega Planar 3 and monolithic PS-1-alot less than your budget and thought it sounded great. Once I got back the vinyl bug, I have since upgraded the 'table and am in the process of upgrading the phono stage.

BTW, What was the record store in Orlando? I'm frequently over there at the theme parks with family, but haven't run across any worthwhile vinyl shops.

Jay N.

I just need a phono stage. I have one in my Sony ES pre-amp but I'd assume I'll get better sound with some esoteric piece.

The store was called Rock'N'Roll Heaven. 1814 N Orange Ave. (407) 896-1952.

[aashton]

Jamie if you come across any dupes on the Yes stuff please let me know as I would love to cross your palm with Silver :) I was looking at some radio shows and interviews on the Bay a few days ago but the festivities distracted me :( I recently bought French and Russian copies of Time and a Word plus Mexican and Japanese versions of Classic Yes, Tales, Drama and Close to the Edge and a sealed Big Generator :) Sorry for being OT but I do like my Yes :D

&ru

[aashton]

If you are comfortable with pre-owned kit and Audiogon then there are a couple of decks there that would help stretch your $$$ - The VPI http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?anlgtabl&1045854352&class&3&4& for $1150 and the Rega with a cartridge for $1100 http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?anlgtabl&1046135172&class&3&4&

All the best - Andrew

[Jamie Tate]

I might be persuaded to accidentally make an extra copy of certain items.:cool:

I'll PM you when I get a TT and start to transfer this stuff. There's not a store around here that has turntables as a cash and carry item so I'm going to be buying mail order on the advice of you guys.

[Jamie Tate]

So you like the VPI stuff?

[Ted Bell]

Originally posted by yesman


I just need a phono stage. I have one in my Sony ES pre-amp but I'd assume I'll get better sound with some esoteric piece.

The store was called Rock'N'Roll Heaven. 1814 N Orange Ave. (407) 896-1952.

Thanks for the info about the store. As far as phono stage, it depends on your cartridge. Both the Monolithic and Lehman Black Cube are highly regarded and reasonably priced (check audiogon for deals). If you use a low output MC cartridge, I think the Lehman has more gain. I am currently using the medium output Benz Glider and the Monolithic performs beautifully. The planar 3 was recommended by several here and it was a great starter table towards the high end. Easy to set up and maintain.

Jay N.

[Jamie Tate]

I need the turntable too. Thanks for the pre-amp suggestions.

[aashton]

Originally posted by yesman
So you like the VPI stuff?

Jamie - I have no experience of any of the decks I suggested - but if I were shopping in the price bracket you have indicated based on my experience with those manufacturers kit at other price points I would feel I was in the right ball park.

When I heard the VPI TNT last year it both sounded and looked more than right and I would have no problem giving house room to one :) I have a Rega Planar 3 which was my first deck bought a year ago and which I think is a mighty fine entry into vinyl as well as a ClearAudio Reference which is doing the business for me at present - I didn't want to be overly partizan about a brand I own.

Good luck hunting - Andrew

[Sckott]

I'm a big Rega fan. I too own a Planar 3 with a modified RB300 arm. I love it.

VPI's are wonderful too!

[lukpac]

Originally posted by yesman
Also, is the Discwasher D4+ an adequate way of cleaning these things?

No. It will get the visible dust off the record, but it will leave all the gunk (which is the stuff you actually hear) in the grooves. A VPI or Nitty Gritty vacuum system is really the only way to go.

If you had $10k to blow I'd say grab a laser turntable!

[Holy Zoo]

I totally agree with Luke here - spend the $450 and get a VPI vacuum cleaner. The remaining $1550 should easily get you a great turntable/cart/preamp.

HZ

[LEEWAY]

Let me add my vote for the Rega P3. I've had one for about a year. It was my choice for my reentry into vinyl. IMHO, it has excellent audio quality. I've equipped it with a high end Rega cartridge (get the Elys or Super Elys). This will come in well under a grand, and leave you money for a good preamp. If you want to save $, you could even use a Parasound phono preamp (about $125); you will still get good sound. Of course, there are more sophisticated preamps out there. Enjoy!:)

[thegage]

My $.02.

A cleaner is essential. Buy the $200 Nitty Gritty at Audio Advisor and some of the Disc Doctor fluid and brushes for another $40. Dynavector 10X4 high output MC or Clearaudio Aurum Beta MM cartridge for $350. EAR 834P (MM only) for $795 (add a transformer later if you go to low output MC). And Rega P3 for $750. A shade over $2000.

Of course, you can stretch this by buying used (and some models like VPI and Clearaudio can be upgraded at a later time), but the main point I would make is to put more than you think is reasonable into the phono stage. A great phono stage will make a good cartridge and beginner 'table shine, while an OK stage will strangle the others.

John K.

[Jamie Tate]

Originally posted by lukpac
No. It will get the visible dust off the record, but it will leave all the gunk (which is the stuff you actually hear) in the grooves. A VPI or Nitty Gritty vacuum system is really the only way to go.

If you had $10k to blow I'd say grab a laser turntable!

Thanks Luke.

[Ed Bishop]

Originally posted by yesman


I spend WAAAYY too much but I couldn't pass this up. Someone either got in trouble with the wife or died because this collection was too good. Even though I have most of this stuff on CD I had to get the vinyl. It's just sexier.

Jon Anderson interview disc from Going for the One.
Leave It 45 with vocal only mix.
Jon Anderson solo albums (all unopened except Animation) Olias of Sunhillow, Song of Seven, 3 Ships and Animation (good condition).
Trevor Rabin interview disc form 1989.
Several live boots.
Radio copy of a 90125 show.
Several unopened 12" remixes from Big Generator.
Very clean copies of Yes albums up to Big Generator.
First two solo Steve Howe albums.
Chris Squire- Fish Out Of Water
Alan White- Ramshackled
Rick Wakeman- Journey to the Center of the Earth.
Trevor Rabin's first solo record.
Rabbit- Boys Will Be Boys.
John Paul Jones- Scream for Help Soundtrack (two Jon Anderson tunes)
A Jon and Vangelis 45 with a non-album b-side.
Vultures- non-album b-side from ABWH.

Wow!! Way to go, Jamie! Excellent haul there. I don't come across stashes like that often--unfortuantely:( --but in those rare times when I do, I always wonder what prompted the poor schlub to dump 'em in the first place. Your theories--the wife or death:eek: --are entirely plausible and likely; so is the fact he may have simply gotten over(if that's the word)his Yes Fixation as he grew older, or(even more likely)the poor guy needed the cash NOW, to pay the rent or something, and had no choice. But what's bad for him is good for you. Whenever I find a used(but nice)MFSL or DCC Gold, I don't wonder much about why somebody would ever give one up. I shudder to think of the time when I might have to. Nope, that would spoil a relaxing evening. Must think good thoughts.

3 SHIPS is a beauty; got a WLP on that one. Fine, fine album.

ED:cool:

[Jamie Tate]

Originally posted by Ed Bishop
...or(even more likely)the poor guy needed the cash NOW, to pay the rent or something, and had no choice.
ED:cool:

After I buy the turntable, pre amp, cartridge and disc cleaner I'll probably have to sell all my records and CDs to pay my mortgage.

One more thing Ed, you're not playing by the rules. You're supposed to tell me what TT and pre amp I should get.:) Right now I'd have to stagger into the Hi Fi store with my wallet opened up and hope nobody will rip me off.

[Ed Bishop]

Originally posted by yesman


One more thing Ed, you're not playing by the rules. You're supposed to tell me what TT and pre amp I should get.:) Right now I'd have to stagger into the Hi Fi store with my wallet opened up and hope nobody will rip me off.

Very right, Jamie; my sincerest apologies. You could even have had me Gorted, you know, just to keep the threat of closing threads viable:winkgrin:

Well, to play by the rules, and since you asked...if I had the 2K and the advice of my esteemed forum colleagues, I'd say Andrew's post is the way to go for the money: the VPI and the Rega. That's great equipment for the value. And while Luke's turntable advice is 'sound,' as it were, I'm still a little leery of the very idea of a 'laser turntable.' Yeah, it might work, but vinyl was designed for grooves, not light; I somehow suspect the sound won't be the same. And if you've got a good cartridge and stylus and have your tonearm weight right--and don't play the hell out of any particular vinyl--a regular turntable is not only sensible but why use anything else?
I'd like to hear a demonstration sometime, gotta admit...but the high end websites offer some mind-boggling TT's for 10K, the kind that look like they belong in a spacecraft rather than an earthbound listening room.

If you've got the speakers to handle the power, I think Andrew gave you great advice, although all the suggestions to date are good ones. Amazing, those Brits.

ED:cool:

[Henry Love]

Jamie,the rega P3 is a good way to go.I had one and loved it.Just traded up with full original price credit to the P25.Was all set to go with the Clearaudio Beta S cartridge until I read a review of the Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood cartridge in the December Stereophile.He also spoke of some other good cartridges.Good article.I went with the Virtuoso.As far as a phono stage goes,don't know,don't have one but the Bottlehead sounds interesting.$225 for a tube phono stage,the only catch is you have to build it yourself.Good luck.You're gonna enjoy it.